53 Message 53: From extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Thu Aug 5 06:33:33 1993 Return-Path: Received: from usc.edu by chaph.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.0) id AA06739; Thu, 5 Aug 93 06:33:32 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: from panix.com by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA27806; Thu, 5 Aug 93 06:33:22 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: by panix.com id AA06999 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for more@usc.edu); Thu, 5 Aug 1993 09:29:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 09:29:14 -0400 Message-Id: <199308051329.AA06999@panix.com> To: Exi@panix.com From: Exi@panix.com Subject: Extropians Digest X-Extropian-Date: August 5, 373 P.N.O. [13:29:08 UTC] Reply-To: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Status: RO Extropians Digest Thu, 5 Aug 93 Volume 93 : Issue 216 Today's Topics: [1 msgs] Bits and Bytes Online v1 #4 [1 msgs] DIET: Alcoholic beverages [1 msgs] Natural law and natural rights [1 msgs] Natural law and natural rights [2 msgs] Nightly Market Report [1 msgs] investing [1 msgs] Administrivia: No admin msg. Approximate Size: 53867 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 16:36:30 -0700 From: cappello@cs.ucsb.edu (Peter Cappello) Subject: Natural law and natural rights As much as I like Lysander Spooner, I have shared Perry's view about Natural law for some time. Secure in my wisdom (or is it enlightenment?), I encountered a discussion on this forum, I think initiated by David Friedman, applying the concept of Schelling point to law. If Schelling points exist in law-space (putting aside the question of how one would scientifically establish such laws or legal concepts), would these laws [legal concepts] qualify as Natural laws [legal concepts]? This, I believe, is a purely semantic question. If one answers yes, then investigating the supporting _methodology_ (for disclosing such laws/legal concepts]) may become interesting. So might the context: Legal Schelling point for extropians? Legal Schelling point for humans? Legal Schelling point for intelligent life? (Again, we encounter difficulty defining these categories, which seem to change over time anyway). One however may say no; such laws [legal concepts], while having greater appeal, are not "Natural." Again, it appears to be merely a matter of words. Is it? -Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1993 19:56:42 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: Natural law and natural rights Peter Cappello says: > As much as I like Lysander Spooner, I have shared Perry's view about > Natural law for some time. Secure in my wisdom (or is it > enlightenment?), I encountered a discussion on this forum, I think > initiated by David Friedman, applying the concept of Schelling point > to law. > > > If Schelling points exist in law-space (putting aside the question of > how one would scientifically establish such laws or legal concepts), > would these laws [legal concepts] qualify as Natural laws [legal > concepts]? This, I believe, is a purely semantic question. Yes and no. To you and me, the definition of "natural" is fairly flexible. However, many, if not most, people who use the term "natural law" use it almost as if there were, written in the sky, a set of rules to go by. They assume that some rule, like the non-coercion principle, is an axiom, when its in fact an empirically derived thing thats just a "good idea" within the context of most people's goal sets. There are plenty of cases, in fact, where many ways to handle a particular problem are available and likely equally good for advancing the sorts of goals I like to see advanced. There are also many cases where the usual rules break down. "Natural Law" people get uncomfortable from this, because they like to believe that they can derive "good" ways to handle all cases from some "axioms". In fact, the "axioms" do act as "axioms" for a wide range of cases, but in border cases they break down. Those who understand how the "axioms" were derived, from empirical methods designed to do goal-maximization, aren't stunned by this development and can find new ways to handle the cases empirically. Those that believe in "natural law" flounder in such cases. Here, for example, is a "hard problem": your neighbor is building a nuclear weapon. He's also a little crazy, and a few years ago he was subject to violent episodes, but he's a free man right now, and just acting within his "rights" ... or is he? Here is another problem. I shine a flashlight at your house for a moment or two -- am I intruding on your property or somehow violating it? I shine a 10 megawatt laser at your house -- am I intruding on your property or somehow violating it? Remember, its just a question of quantity. I have several ways to solve this problem. None of them fall naturally out of the "natural law" orientation. They do fit pretty well into the way real common law legal systems work, which is via precedent, mutual expectations, and a willingness to find workable solutions that "will do" when no solution exists that is "perfect", but thats not the way "natural law" people view the world. In conclusion, "natural law" is not purely a semantic question. Believing that "you shouldn't initate force because its wrong" is more or less what it leads you to, which prevents you from gaining access to the tools with which to truly understand where that rule comes from, why its a "good idea" for many cases, and what to do when it breaks. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 17:02:42 PDT From: thamilto@pcocd2.intel.com (Tony Hamilton - FES ERG~) Subject: investing > > Ah, but how do you qualify a company as being well-run and > > underpriced? > > Well, when I've done it, its generally been easy. Find a company you > really like and who's products you use -- say, Cabletron a couple of > years ago. Then, examine the PE ratio of the stock, read the annual > report, and do some more miscelaneous research. If you have a friend > there, ask them how they like the place and the like. If the company > looks well run, you like their products, and the stock looks like the > ratio of price to future earnings is probably low, then buy. Its not > hard. This is known as the fundamentalist approach, and studies have shown that, in and of itself, it is no better than any other method. It doesn't work because at this level of research, you really still haven't learned anything which may indicate how the company is going to do tomorrow, and worse yet, stock prices don't necessarily reflect performance! I'm not knocking these methods as part of the smart investor's tools, but by themselves, fundamental indicators are still no better at predicting stock prices than the dart board. There has to be more. > > For the most part, this is all stockbrokers (or their firms' research > > departments) do also. > > Yeah, but they are idiots for the most part. Think the analyst who > covers Qualcomm for your local brokerage knows spread spectrum from > mayonaise? Not usually. And of course you already touch upon one such "something more". Being knowledgable, or even an expert, in the area of investment, is a big advantage. > > What often gives the big winners a great advantage is sheer volume. First > > of all, if you are important enough to actually have a seat on the exchange > > (and I admit, I only know that certain brokerages do - do people? ANd I don't > > know, but I thought basically only brokerages did on AMEX as well), you > > don't pay commissions. You pay for that seat, but it may be peanuts > > if the volumes are high. > > Peter Lynch didn't make his money off of avoiding commissions -- he > made it because he picked good stocks. > > If you want to pay low commissions, you can. Go to a discount broker > like Schwab or Fidelity. (Schwab even has programs for your PC that > enter trades for you by modem -- they give you discounts for using > them!) If you get experienced, you can go to a deep discount broker > and save even more. Some of the deep discounters will sell to you for > only $.02 or $.03 a share commission, which is very close to what > institutions pay, and not so far from the lowest even people with > seats on the exchange manage in practice. `taint hard, me boy. Perry, you will _not_ get those commissions with small investments. You need larger transactions. I've researched all the discount brokers as well as the tradtional brokerage firms. Discounts are better at high volume, traditional better at low volume, but you have to have very high volume to get down that far. > > Also, even if you do pay commissions, which even most of the > > wealthiest of investors have to, they are virtually nothing for > > large volumes (either in shares or dollars). For instance, the > > "average" investor is probably paying 5% coming and going. > > Only fools pay that much. (Fools or people who work for one of the > houses -- I'm required to trade through Lehman. The commissions are > sky high. It blows -- believe me.) Isn't that the point? The average investor _is_ a fool. Thought you'd get my point. > > There are exceptions, but from what I know of the successful investors, > > they are by and large people who had money to invest in the first place. > > I think if you want any kind of flexibility, $10-$30K is a bare minimum. > > > You can surely play with less, > > Mutual funds will take investments of far far less. And thus are the only way to go for low-risk, sorta-decent returns. Tony Hamilton thamilto@pcocd2.intel.com HAM on HEx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1993 21:12:22 -0400 (EDT) From: JAYMACHADO@delphi.com Subject: Bits and Bytes Online v1 #4 Please read the administrivia section at end for important subscription and access information. Thanks! ====================================================================== BBB III TTT SSS BBB Y Y TTT EEE SSS B B I T S B B Y Y T E S ONLINE EDITION BBB I T SSS AND BBB YYY T EEE SSS VOL 1, NUMBER 4 B B I T S B B Y T E S 8/3/93 BBB III T SSS BBB Y T EEE SSS ====================================================================== "The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys." - Sir William Preece, chief engineer of the British Post Office, 1876 ====================================================================== Peter Drucker I: The Future of Labor and Industry International economic theory is obsolete. The traditional factors of production - land, labor, and capital - are becoming restraints rather than driving forces. Knowledge is becoming the one critical factor of production. ... Knowledge has become the central, key resource that knows no geography. It underlies the most significant and unprecedented social phenomena of this century. No class in history has ever risen as fast as the blue-collar worker and no class has ever fallen as fast. All within less than a century. ... Now we have a Secretary of Labor [Robert Reich, see B&B v1 #1] who openly declared, in "The Work of Nations," that the blue collar worker doesn't matter. And the unions accepted him. ... Abandoning people and products is the necessary handmaiden of organizational survival. In the early 70's, the last round of military cuts in the California bay area caused massive unemployment; but that became the fertile ground in which Silicon Valley blossomed. ...it makes more sense for you to make obsolete your own products rather than wait for your competitor to do it. ... I've always believed that success is the worst enemy of change, and failure its best friend. [Just look at IBM - JM] **** [Peter Drucker is considered the father of modern management. In the 1950's, Drucker realized that success in business would be determined by how well managed an organization was, not how large or well financed it was. He coined the term "knowledge worker" long before the information age became a cliche. To this day Drucker's writings and opinions are avidly sought by readers of The Wall Street Journal and the well-informed CEOS of corporations around the world. The previous comments were excerpted from an interview with Drucker by Peter Schwartz in WIRED Magazine 1.3, the July/August 1993 issue, still on your newsstand and highly recommended. Peter Drucker is 82 years old, and his most recent book is "Post Capitalist Society"] ========================================================================== Brazil, Where The Worker Is King Semco, a Brazilian manufacturer of pumps and industrial equipment, lets most employees decide their own working hours and salaries. (Some workers earn more than their bosses.) Employees set productivity and sales targets, and they decide how to share out bonuses. They also have unlimited access to the company's books. There are no manuals or written procedures, and no controls over travel and business expenses. Peer pressure prevents abuse of freedoms. "All we're doing is treating people like adults." The company has 300 employees and has helped start another 200 in independent businesses. As owner, Ricardo Semler demands healthy dividends. His book, "Maverick!" (Century, Warner Books, 272 pages, $22.95) is just coming out, but the Portuguese version has been on Brazil's bestseller list for 199 weeks and has sold 460K copies. (Source: The Economist, 6/26/93, p. 66) ====================================================================== The Advantage Law of Information Getting information to the people who need it when they need it will provide the two key components for an organization's success in a chaotic world: speed and flexibility. The organization that can predict customer needs, respond to customer desires, and react to customer problems the fastest will come out on top. The ultimate goal is to reduce overall cycle time for informed action. (Source: Frank J. Ricotta Jr., "The Six Immutable Laws of Information," Information Week, 7/19/93, p. 63) ====================================================================== The Aurora Tests: Taking a Test Drive On The Information Highway Participants in the Aurora research network tests report that they have successfully begun transmitting data and video signals across the high speed network backbone. The first transmission, on May 7, 1993: a brief series of numbers and fragments of alphabet. Nothing more inspiring than "012345....". Still, what mattered wasn't the meat of the message, but the motion. Those digits moved at record-setting speed: 2.6 gigabits-per-second. And how fast is that? Fast enough to send the entire Encyclopaedia Britannica from Philadelphia to Boston in a quarter of a second, University of Pennsylvania researchers said. That's *fast*. Trying the same thing with a home computer and modem would take 3 days. These tests are one of 5 other high speed test networks being tested under the auspices of the National Science Foundation and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency under a 1990, $15.8 million contract to university supercomputer centers. Participating phone companies and switching manufacturers are providing equipment and switching services out of their own pockets at a cost far beyond the level of government funding. "The goals of these test beds are to figure out how to build these networks and what to use them for," said Dave Sincoskie, executive director of computer networking research at Bell Communications Research Inc. Video signals are now being sent over these connections. I personally know someone affiliated with the U of P and can report that he used the video hookup to watch the PC lab being cleaned at night from the privacy of his home. Science marches on! Hey, you missed a spot... Seriously though, these test beds may be the first pieces of the National Information Highway, with uses in medicine, telecommuting, business teleconferencing, new forms of entertainment, and uses far beyond what anyone can imagine right now. (Sources: Computerworld 4/12/93, 7/5/93, Communications Week 7/5/93, and The Philadelphia Inquirer, date unknown) ====================================================================== Chaos Theory In almost every organization, the information from which all business decisions spring resembles less an orderly strand of genetic material than a chaotic, unsolved jigsaw puzzle. To a technologist, perhaps, the percentage of business information that is safely, rationally computerized is frighteningly small. Instead, the stuff from which strategies are built floats more or less freely through the corporate air and waits for a leader to recognize it. (Source: Thomas Kiely, "Key Pieces Of Information," CIO magazine, 6/1/93, p. 49) ====================================================================== United States In The Grip of Technophobia A study released Monday by Dell Computer found that more than half of all Americans are still resistant to taking advantage of technology in their everyday lives. The survey showed that one-fourth of all US adults have never used a computer, set a VCR to record a television show or even programmed their favorite stations on a car radio. 32% of adults are intimidated by computers and worry about damaging one if they use it without assistance; 25% of the adults "miss the days when we just had typewriters," and more than one-fourth would not use a computer unless forced to. The study is part of an ongoing effort by Dell to "techno-type" users into one of several broad categories that will help people understand what computers can do for them and how they can go about finding their perfect PC match. This fear of technology is seen as an obstacle that must be overcome to achieve broad consumer acceptance for computers and computer-enabled devices in the US. The study shows that teenagers are more technically aware than adults, with 92 percent of all teens surveyed saying they are comfortable using technical gadgets such as answering machines, VCR's, CD players, and computers. Both adults and teens agree on two key points: First, that using computers can save them time, and second, that computer terminology is too confusing and hard to understand. (Dell: 314/982-9111) (Sources: St. Petersburg Times 7/27/93, p. E1, Newsbytes 7/26/93, and Informaion Week 8/2/93, p. 46) ====================================================================== Inside The Programmer's Mind Last among the essential personality traits for programming, we might add a sense of humor. The computer "Doth make fools of us all," so that any fool without the ability to share a laugh on himself will be unable to tolerate programming for long. It has been said with great perspicacity that the programmer's national anthem is "AAAAHHHH!" Then we finally see the light, we see how once again we have fallen into some foolish assumption, some oafish practice, or some witless blunder. Only by singing the second stanza "Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha," can we long endure the role of clown. (from The Psychology of Computer Programming by Gerard M. Weinberg) ====================================================================== Mind Over Matter Will computers soon be able to read your mind? At Fujitsu Ltd., that's exactly what researchers are trying to get their machines to do, as they continue to develop a computer that reads and obeys signals associated with thoughts and body motions. Thus far, they have created a computer-assisted robot hand that can mimic the motions of a human hand by analyzing the tiny nerve pulses sent from the brain to the finger muscles. They hope in a few years to have marketable brain- controlled artificial limbs that would be much less cumbersome than what's currently available. Meanwhile, N.Y. State Department of Health researchers have developed a system that enables users to move the cursor by mental action alone. Psychologists with the University of Illinois have created a way of allowing people to type simply by spelling the word out in their mind. None of this is parapsychology; it's pure science. (Sources: Tampa Tribune 7/27/93, New York Times, 2/9/93) ====================================================================== NEW PRODUCTS AND SERVICES: Schizophrenic PC To Debut The DUET personal computer, just announced by NuTek U.S.A. Corp., is essentially two computers in one. It is a 2 chip machine, based on the Intel 486DX and the Motorola 68030, both running at 33 MHz. In a nutshell, this machine can run Macintosh and IBM PC software simultaneously! The standard configuration includes a keyboard, monitor, 8 MEG of RAM, 160 MEG of storage on 2 hard disks. 2 expansion slots for each system are provided. This system may provide the answer for users torn between the 2 systems, both of which have their strengths and weaknesses. I have not seen any reviews of this machine, which has a base price of $2,995. The concept is intriguing though. (NuTek USA: 408/973-8799) (Source: Datamation, 7/15/93, p. 68) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Apple to Release Talking Macs! Apple Computer plans to announce a new line of mid-priced Macs today that talk, recognize voice commands and read text back to the user. The computers will be available next month. (Miami Herald 7/29/93 C3) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Time Magazine To Go On-line Using America Online, Time magazine will be the first general-interest magazine to provide an electronic forum allowing readers to hold discussions with the magazine's reporters and editors and to read the text of entire issues of Time electronically before the magazine is available on newsstands. (Source: New York Times 7/26/93, p. C6) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Prodigy To Offer Internet Connection Prodigy is alpha-testing a gateway to the Internet, but few users are authorized to use it yet. The charge is $.15 per 3K characters received, with a 60KB limit per message (or 250KB for internal binary transfers). (Source: needje@msen.com, 7/26/93) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= A short-wavelength laser from IBM will allow optical disks to hold five times as much data. (Source: New York Times, 6/2/93) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Faster 486 Outpaces Pentium The Pentium chip is taking a backseat at Intel in favor of DX3, a revved-up version of the i486 microprocessor. The chip, which runs internally at 100 MHz is expected to give near-Pentium performance at a much lower cost. In effect, the DX3 - not Pentium - will be Intel's high-volume, high-performance chip through the first half of 1994. (Source: Michael Fitzgerald, "Faster 486 Could Overlap Pentium," Computerworld, 7/19/93, p. 1. ) =================================================================== = Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum = = tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only = = 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1 1/2 tons. = = Popular Mechanics, March 1949. = =================================================================== Mainframe On A Chip Last week B&B reported on a luggable mid-range AS/400 computer developed by IBM, hailing it as a marvel of miniaturization. Well, never mind - IBM has outdone *themselves* this time. It seems they have been showing off a mainframe add-in card for its Intel-based model 195 and 295 multi-processor servers. The card includes a shrunk down (and much cooler) IBM 390-class CPU and 16 megabytes of mainframe memory. It can run anything IBM's low- and midrange System 390 machines can run without modification. That includes all your favorites: the Customer Information Control System (CICS), the DB2 relational database and the Time Sharing Option (TSO), as well as the MVS and VM operating systems. Running under the multitasking OS/2 2.x, the card handles all I/O and can, for example, control your mainframe system tape drive if you need to download any of your existing software. When can you buy this truly downsized mainframe? IBM won't say, but the engineers working on the product say they expect it to be ready for purchase by year's end. (Source: Datamation, 7/15/93, p. 16) ====================================================================== Bits and Bytes Bookshelf: Summertime Science Fiction Suggestions Man does not life by technical non-fiction alone. It's summertime, and maybe you want to relax by the pool with a good science fiction novel. These are all books I have read and enjoyed, but they were also chosen with an eye to giving you a glimpse of some of the possible futures that the information age may bring upon us. Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson [Bantam Books, 1992. $5.99] -In the near future, Americans excel at only a few things: music, movies, microcode (software), and delivering a pizza in under 30 minutes... Things are run by the franchises and Burbclaves, the latter having their own citizens, constitutions, laws, and cops. Much of the action takes place in the Metaverse, a virtual reality universe in which the coolest have the best rendered avatars. A founding programmer of The Black Sun, an exclusive Metaverse club, the book's protagonist Hiro is down on his luck and lives in a spacious 20-by-30-foot U-Stor-lt near the Los Angeles Airport. Snow Crash is a computer virus that is striking down hackers everywhere! Thrills aplenty, and some interesting thoughts about where we *may* be headed. "Snow Crash is a fantastic, slam-bang-overdrive, supersurrealistic, cosmic-spooky whirl through a tomorrow that is already happening." (Timothy Leary) Earth by David Brin [Bantam Books, 1991. $5.99] -A microscopic black hole has accidentally fallen into the earth's core, threatening to destroy the planet within 2 years. "Earth" is an edge of the seat thriller, a kaleidoscopic novel peopled with extra- ordinary characters and challenging new visions of an incredibly real future: global computer networks that put limitless information at everyone's fingertips, an environment ravaged by the greenhouse effect, a quiet revolution by the politically powerful elderly. (From the back cover) Islands In The Net by Bruce Sterling [Ace books, 1988. $4.99] -Bruce Sterling, who has been quoted in B&B, is a great sci-fi writer. Read anything by him and you will not be disappointed. I choose this one in particular because it has much to say about some very likely aspects of the future. The book, set in the not too distant future, imagines a world where the power is in the hands of mega-national corporations (not a major stretch here), with a worldwide computer (and human) network (hence the title) at their commands. The protagonist and her husband both work for one of these corporations, and their lives become swept up in a power struggle that will change their lives and their relationships with each other in ways they can't begin to imagine. Neuromancer by William Gibson [Ace Books, 1984] - The novel that launched the cyberpunk movement. A great read if you don't take the science too seriously. An engrossing mix of film noir darkness and "high-tech electric poetry... an enthralling adventure story, as brilliant and coherent as a laser. This is why science fiction was invented." (Bruce Sterling) Virtual reality is represented via the Matrix, a worldwide computer net that people log onto by plugging their brains into it. Corporate databases are represented as bright geometric structures; artificial intelligences roam the dataverse, and maybe, just maybe, *something else* is lurking in the matrix, something new, yet ancient as the cosmos. Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology edited by Bruce Sterling [Ace Books, 1988) - The place to start for an overview of the talents of the various authors of the cyberpunk movement. "...filled with surreal visionary intensity. They are often sexy, occasionally lewd, always frightening, are filled with with black humor, obsessed with the interface of high-tech and pop underground, and always fascinating." (Fantasy Review) ====================================================================== Does Dick Tracy Know About This? Japan's major calculator maker, Casio, has come up with a wrist watch that has a built-in remote control unit. This unique device will be released on August 17 at a cost of 9,500 yen ($85). Like the new breed of universal remote controls, the wrist watch controller can control most audio visual devices such as TV sets, stereos and video players. It uses infrared technology just the same as regular remote control devices. The remote controller can control multiple audio devices and supports a TV's power on/off, channel selection, and volume control. Regarding VCR operation, it supports power on/off, fast forward/ rewind, play, stop, and channel selection. The controller is the size of an ordinary wrist watch. No more playing hide and seek with your remote controls! Besides these advanced functions, the wrist watch also has the standard features you'd expect, such as a stopwatch, an alarm clock and a calendar. The removable battery lasts for about a year and half. Casio expects this remote controller to be a big hit in Japan. The firm is planning to ship 100,000 units per month. (Newsbytes News Service, 7/7/93) ====================================================================== ADMINISTRIVIA ************DON'T FORGET TO INCLUDE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS!!!************* Bits and Bytes Online is a weekly electronic newsletter. Email Subscriptions are available at no cost from slakmaster@aol.com or jmachado@pacs.pha.pa.us. Put "SUBSCRIBE in the subject header and your email address in the body of the message. If you work for "the rail" (and you know who you are) send a similar message to my emailbox. To unsubscribe, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject header and your email address in the body. B&B is also available for downloading on America Online in their telecom files area, and in Compuserve's telecom forum library. If you decide to receive B&B that way, please don't forget to unsubscribe! On the Internet, B&B will be available from various servers and mailing lists. Details next issue. (I said that last week, but this time I mean it! Questions and comments are welcome at any address. If you come across anything you think should be included here, please pass it on! Send long postings to the pacs address. If you need to reach me on paper, my snailmail address follows: =============================================== = (Copyleft 1993 Jay Machado) Unaltered = Jay Machado = *electronic* distribution of this file for = 1529 Dogwood Drive = non-profit purposes is encouraged. = Cherry Hill, NJ, 08003 = The opinions expressed herein are pretty = ph (eve) 609/795-0998 = darn kooky when you get right down to it. = = Caveat Lector! = =============== end of Bits and Bytes Online V1, #4.================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 93 00:10:02 EDT From: The Hawthorne Exchange Subject: Nightly Market Report The Hawthorne Exchange - HEx Nightly Market Report For more information on HEx, send email to HEx@sea.east.sun.com with the Subject info. --------------------------------------------------------------- News Summary as of: Thu Aug 5 00:10:02 EDT 1993 Newly Registered Reputations: (None) New Share Issues: Symbol Shares Issued ARKU 10000 Share Splits: (None) --------------------------------------------------------------- Market Summary as of: Thu Aug 5 00:00:02 EDT 1993 Total Shares Symbol Bid Ask Last Issued Outstanding Market Value 1000 .10 .20 .10 10000 2000 200.00 110 .01 .10 - 10000 - - 150 .01 .10 - 10000 - - 1E6 .02 .10 - 10000 - - 1E9 .01 .10 - 10000 - - 200 .10 .20 .10 10000 2000 200.00 80 .01 .10 - 10000 - - 90 .01 .20 .10 10000 2000 200.00 ACS - .15 .50 10000 1124 562.00 AI .01 .50 .20 10000 1000 200.00 ALCOR 2.00 3.80 2.00 10000 3031 6062.00 ALTINST - .15 .15 10000 2500 375.00 ANTON - 1.00 - 10000 - - ARKU - .15 - 10000 - - BIOPR .01 .20 .10 10000 1500 150.00 BLAIR .01 30.00 50.00 10000 25 1250.00 CYPHP .15 .17 .17 10000 100 17.00 DEREK - .42 1.00 100000 8220 8220.00 DRXLR 1.00 2.00 2.00 10000 2246 4492.00 DVDT .75 1.55 1.63 10000 9900 16137.00 E .58 .70 .60 10000 5487 3292.20 ESR - - - - - - EXI 1.00 3.00 1.30 10000 3025 3932.50 FAB - - - - - - FCP - 1.00 - 80000 4320 - GHG .01 .30 .01 10000 6755 67.55 GOBEL .01 .30 1.00 10000 767 767.00 GOD .10 .20 .10 10000 1000 100.00 H .76 .76 - 30000 18750 - HAM .01 .30 .20 10000 5000 1000.00 HEINLN .01 .25 - 10000 - - HEX 100.00 125.00 100.00 10000 3368 336800.00 HFINN 2.00 10.00 .75 10000 1005 753.75 IMMFR .25 .80 .49 10000 1401 686.49 JFREE .01 .15 .10 10000 3000 300.00 JPP .25 .26 .25 10000 2510 627.50 LEARY .01 .20 .20 10000 100 20.00 LEF .01 .15 .30 10000 1526 457.80 LEFTY .01 .45 .30 10000 3051 915.30 LIST .40 .75 .50 10000 5000 2500.00 LP .01 .09 - 10000 - - LSOFT .58 .60 .58 10000 7050 4089.00 LURKR - .08 - 100000 - - MARCR - - - - - - MED21 .01 .08 - 10000 - - MLINK - .09 .02 1000000 2602 52.04 MMORE - .10 - 10000 - - MORE .75 1.25 .75 10000 3000 2250.00 MWM .15 .15 1.50 10000 1260 1890.00 N 20.00 25.00 25.00 10000 98 2450.00 NEWTON - .20 - 10000 - - NSS .01 .05 - 10000 - - OCEAN .11 .12 .10 10000 1500 150.00 P 20.00 25.00 25.00 1000000 66 1650.00 PETER - .01 1.00 10000000 600 600.00 PLANET .01 .10 .05 10000 1500 75.00 PPL .11 .25 .10 10000 400 40.00 PRICE - 4.00 2.00 10000000 1410 2820.00 R .49 2.80 .99 10000 5100 5049.00 RAND - .06 - 10000 - - RJC 1.00 999.00 .60 10000 5100 3060.00 ROMA - - - - - - RWHIT - - - - - - SGP - - - - - - SHAWN .01 1.00 - 10000 - - SSI - .05 - 10000 - - TCMAY .40 .63 .75 10000 4000 3000.00 TIM 1.00 2.00 1.00 10000 100 100.00 TRANS .01 .05 .40 10000 1511 604.40 VINGE .20 .50 .20 10000 1000 200.00 WILKEN 1.00 10.00 10.00 10000 101 1010.00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total 419374.53 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 93 01:08 EDT From: "Andrew I Cohen" Subject: DIET: Alcoholic beverages Recently many of us may have heard pop media outlets trumpetting the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption. (60 minutes did a piece on how the French have a lower level of coronary disease, and this was pegged to their regular consumption of red wine.) I wonder if there is any merit to those claims. (Whatever the case, the gov't forbids vintners from mentioning such potential health benefits in ads or on the products themselves.) (Saved again.) I still get the sense that many folks on this list avoid the stuff like the plague. How come? I usually have a glass of wine with dinner, but that's all. Alas -- am I bringing myself to a premature grave? Is there any evidence that alcohol consumption in such moderate quantities is foolish? Anybody done any reading on this topic? Brush and floss regularly. Andrew Cohen uandcoh@uncmvs.oit.unc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 3 August 1993 21:39:07 PST8 From: "James A. Donald" Subject: Natural law and natural rights I said: > > "We intuitively know the difference between coercion and > > consent because we know that other humans resemble > > ourselves." In <199308031813.AA24783@jido.b30.ingr.com>, extr@jido.b30.ingr.com (Craig Presson) wrote: > I had trouble getting a handle on what that could possibly _mean_ Do you claim that we do not know the difference between coercion and consent in other people, so that I could not possibly say such a thing, or do you claim that our ability to tell the difference is independent of our knowledge of the nature of man? Either position seems very strange. > _I_ don't know "that other humans resemble" me in the ways > that matter here. I know that some tolerate coercion more > or less than I; that some want to be told what to do; and > that some grow up in cultures where they can hardly even > formulate the question. Because of the nature of man, politeness and respect, resulting from custom and habit, differs drastically from actual submission, which usually results from men in black uniforms kicking down your door in the early hours of the morning. Burma provides a good present day example of a state with both deference and severe state violence. Clearly powerful people in Burma continually commit grave evils. That is not a value judgment, but a statement of undeniable fact, a fact that most Burmese know painfully well. In any state where government frequently uses force in a manner flagrantly and grossly contrary to natural law, its subjects know of that wrongful use of violence. > Fobbing this off as a strawman will not do, especially if I > have understood the extent of your claims for NL. You seem > convinced that there is a NL, roughly like what Locke > formulated in his _Treatise_s, that follows from our human > nature and that of the world we live in. Precisely. > The fact remains that each individual Japanese is trained from infancy > to recognize several levels of loyalty and obligation above his own > interests, and to bow to authority regardless of his own informed > opinion. It's precisely opposite to a free society -- but it's not > "unnatural", either. False: The Japanese bow without submitting. In some ways Japanese possess more freedom than Americans. I repeat: Because of the nature of man, politeness and respect, resulting from custom and habit, differs drastically from actual submission, which usually results from men in black uniforms kicking down your door in the early hours of the morning. In Japan all relationships involve recognition of fine and precise degrees of inequality, and many Japanese find it authoritarian, and find the authoritarianism oppressive and unnatural, but authority in Japan does not employ violent coercion to a very substantial degree. To the extent that such authority relies on affiliation, not the threat of force, it does not violate the nature of man. When Miti told Honda to forget about manufacturing cars, that they should stick to motorcycles, the Honda management bowed, said yes sir, and went on and made cars anyway. If they tried that in America they would have gone to jail. Fortunately the US government does not give such orders regarding exports - only on transactions relating to imports. Unfortunately in an international world every transaction relates to imports, a fact that bureaucrats are now beginning to discover to their great delight. In states where such orders are backed up by violence, and such orders are commonly given, anyone can see the fact that such a government grossly violates the nature of man, and continually commits flagrant evils. Korea is another good example of weak statism. During the military dictatorship the government in theory controlled the economy, but in practice people politely defied it all the time, with entire factories built in direct contradiction to orders. This disobedience in large part created the modern Korean economy. The chaebol, supposedly extensions of the state, built most of the physical plant that now predominates in Korea in polite and respectful defiance of the governments plan. Now that the Korean government claims legitimacy from democracy, they use less severe control in theory, but more severe control in practice. > > > -- in other words, the resurrection of the Ecclesiastic > > > formulation of NL, which is abhorrent to religious freedom. > > > > Your history is utterly wrong here. > > History? I'm talking about current events. Now, the > identification of "Ecclesiastical NL" with various attempts > to make government conform to religious dogma may be > outside what you see as the NL tradition, Since when does Pat Robertson invoke natural law? Even the Roman Catholic church admits that natural law implies that abortion is not murder, though they argue by convoluted reasoning that it follows from natural law that abortion is a grave sin, despite not being murder. (Or at least the Church's scholars admit that - the average priest would not know natural law from a dog that bit him.) The fact that some people have used spurious natural law arguments for evil purposes can hardly outweigh the fact that most successful attempts to create or defend freedom, for example the North American revolution and the Glorious Revolution, relied on natural law. The church's natural law tradition (Thomism) is unquestionably on the side of freedom, which is precisely why the modern church is vigorously trying to bury this tradition or drastically reinterpret it. > Remember the Thomas hearings, where Biden beat Thomas up > for supporting NL, and waved a copy of _Takings_ over his > head like Joe McCarthy, accusing CT of the heinous crime of > reviewing the book without roundly condemning it? > It's evidence that it angers modern liberals, including > the media, And have you wondered *why* it angers modern liberals? > NL can't work if people don't believe in it. Today, > lawyers, judges, and Congresscritters do not believe in NL. It is not surprising that people privileged by control of a monopoly of force do not believe in natural law. Nor is anything likely to convince them. Fortunately the folk on talk.politics.guns *do* believe in natural law. As I said earlier, our society is slowly collapsing, which is a bad thing, and our government is collapsing somewhat faster, which is a very good thing. Fortunately no alternative body exist to claim power and attempt a revolution, but we shall see a seriously bankrupt government that will find it very difficult to enforce its will. These circumstances will favor the recovery of natural law, especially as belief in natural law seems adequately strong among gun owners. The Weaver trial showed that, at least in rural areas, there is still substantial belief in natural law among people who serve on juries. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves and our James A. Donald | property, because of the kind of animals that we | are. True law derives from this right, not from jamesdon@infoserv.com | the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 3 August 1993 22:16:07 PST8 From: "James A. Donald" Subject: Natural law and natural rights In <2136.9308031822@sys.uea.ac.uk>, jrk@information-systems.east-anglia.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) wrote: > Perhaps I missed it -- feel free to flame me for not > paying attention if so Consider yourself flamed. :-) > -- but where does James Donald derive natural laws from? > Not by seeing what customs are common to all societies, > since he considers some societies to be contrary to NL. > From where, then? From our "nature", it appears. How does > he determine this nature? You did miss it. Posted on Exi. "Natural law and natural rights". I assume you are subscribing to extropians only For your benefit I am privately posting you the essay in question. Also available from ftp.netcom.com:/pub/jamesd/rights > To bring the discussion down to earth, could he give a > list of concrete examples of natural laws, together with > the evidence that they are natural laws? A concrete example of natural law necessarily requires a concrete situation, which could get me into a lot of history. In my article I briefly mentioned the condemnation orders in Dade county. For a better discussion of such matters see "Takings" For concrete examples of natural law see Magna Carta, declaration of right, declaration of independence, Hague convention on the conduct of war, the Nuremberg trials, and so on and so forth. Magna Carta and Declaration of independence available on ftp.netcom.com:/pub/jamesd Magna Carta is somewhat incomprehensible, because it refers to institutions and a social order that no longer exist and have no modern equivalent. For the evidence that they are natural law, see my article on ftp.netcom.com:/pub/jamesd/rights For a more accurate and detailed explanation as to why they correspond to natural law see the natural law literature that each event relied on. For the theory behind the declaration of independence and the declaration of right, see John Locke, second treatise, (1690) available on ftp.netcom.com:/pub/jamesd For the theory behind the Hague convention and the Nuremberg trials see Hugo Grotius. "The Law of War and Peace" (1625) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves and our James A. Donald | property, because of the kind of animals that we | are. True law derives from this right, not from jamesdon@infoserv.com | the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. ------------------------------ End of Extropians Digest V93 #216 ********************************* &