Extropians Digest Mon, 21 Jun 93 Volume 93 : Issue 0344 Today's Topics: AltInst Request [1 msgs] BIOL: Multicoulured mantis shrimps [1 msgs] CATO and Marilyn vos Savant [1 msgs] CHAT: Self-portraits (.gif) [2 msgs] CULT: Extropians [1 msgs] CULT: extropians [1 msgs] DIET: Weight loss plans [1 msgs] FRAUD: 100 monkeys. [1 msgs] Failed mail (fwd) [1 msgs] HUMOR: EXTROPIAN BABES, alt.sex, and Flying Yogis [2 msgs] HUMOUR: bones picked by vultures (was SeaMonkeys or something) [1 msgs] Info/pub: June British GQ [1 msgs] LIT: Comedy of Reputations [1 msgs] META: what happened to normal conversation [1 msgs] NOVEL: "Assemblers of Infinity" [1 msgs] PERSONAL:Shhhh//Re: SOC/CHAT: The Truth [1 msgs] SEX: Asking Men OUt//Re: Sex Differences: Who's talking? [1 msgs] SHOW 'N TELL: Interesting Usenet Newsgroups [1 msgs] SOUND: Extropy expressed ... is it possible? [1 msgs] Seagoing Primates and Undersea Domes [1 msgs] TECH/WAR Wormhole Wars [1 msgs] Tabloid Extropy #1 [3 msgs] sex [1 msgs] Administrivia: This is the digested version of the Extropian mailing list. Please remember that this list is private; messages must not be forwarded without their author's permission. To send mail to the list/digest, address your posts to: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu To send add/drop requests for this digest, address your post to: exi-daily-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu To make a formal complaint or an administrative request, address your posts to: extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu If your mail reader is operating correctly, replies to this message will be automatically addressed to the entire list [extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu] - please avoid long quotes! The Extropian mailing list is brought to you by the Extropy Institute, through hardware, generously provided, by the Free Software Foundation - neither is responsible for its content. Forward, Onward, Outward - Harry Shapiro (habs) List Administrator. Approximate Size: 50581 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 22:02:44 GMT From: sjw@liberty.demon.co.uk (Stephen J. Whitrow) Subject: SOUND: Extropy expressed ... is it possible? > From: John McPherson > | These "ever-ascending" tones are known as "Shepard tones." [...] > | If you have "Mathematica," there are notebooks which implement these ... > Thanks for the ref. I don't have Mathematica, and the computer I have > access to is merely a deaf-mute SGI (though it does "beep" occassionally). > Do you, or anyone else, know where I can pick up a cassette tape of these > Shepard tones? I have one of these tapes which I got from the Paraphysical Laboratory (known as the Paralab), Downton, Wiltshire, (England). That was over ten years ago, they're probably out of them by now. It gives quite a variety of sounds, but in the simplest form think of starting off with a bass note. Increase in pitch by a semitone at a time, soon the original voice / 'instrument' lessens in amplitude and is gradually overtaken by a new voice an octave below. (After half an octave both appear about equal intensity.) As Voice Two's second harmonic disappears, a new voice appears an octave below.... And the amplitude / harmonic balance is maintained such that the 'average frequency' remains the same, I'd have thought. Sometimes odd harmonics are included, and sometimes the ascent / descent is speeded up to make it harder to hear exactly what's happening / how it's done. Bizarre narrative at the start: A woman talks about the "fifth dimension", refers to the Big Bang, chants "the square root of minus one", and tells you that this is "the music of interstellar space, in which all directions are the same" (in a reference to the "isotropic music" also included). The Shepard tones were called "heliphonic scales ... like the impossible endless staircases painted by Escher". It's also mentioned that listening to the tape stimulates "ESP" and related abilities. I can't vouch for this! As Tim remarks, it's interesting to hear at first, but I don't think people would regularly listen to the material. Benchmarks for determining how extropic a song is could possibly be set to consider the lyrics -- whether they are pro-statism, pro-deathism, pro-space travel etc. But as for music or even sounds I think it's totally down to personal taste. Steve Whitrow sjw@liberty.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 20:35:21 PDT From: Bruce.Baugh@p23.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Baugh) Subject: SEX: Asking Men OUt//Re: Sex Differences: Who's talking? U > From: habs@Panix.Com (Harry Shapiro) U > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 11:34:58 -0400 (EDT) U > U > a conscious being, Bruce Baugh wrote: U > > Just to help skew data, I'll note that all four of the women U > > I've been really serious with started by asking me out. (Mixed U > U > I think of the women I have dated, more have pursuited me than U > I they, but I think they might disagree. Oh, good, glad it's not just me. :-) In other ways, the women involved were all (at the start of our respective relationships) much less libertarian than me; all finished up substantially over in the camp of self-governance and other Good Stuff. On the other hand, I'm often very shy getting relationships started. Boundless optimism has its limits, I guess. -- uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!40.23!Bruce.Baugh Internet: Bruce.Baugh@p23.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 18:48:58 GMT From: price@price.demon.co.uk (Michael Clive Price) Subject: TECH/WAR Wormhole Wars Robin Hanson wrote: > Regions with too many unknown wormholes in it might be dead zones, > the sort of place no one could plausibly defend because attack > could literally come from anywhere in great force. I think this could be the case with most of the universe, as well, after a while. The enemy only has to sneak one nano-scale wormhole past the defenders, expand and then bootstrap more wormholes through to establish a beachhead. All institutions in space seem vulnerable to this. High security, corporate and military, establishments may move into basement universes, where they are safer. Only a known number of holes to watch and monitor. If they need more space or matter, they inflate their basement universe a bit more. > Third, regions which, for the same "empire" or "universal" time, are > at an earlier cosmological co-moving time would have strong military > advantages. Say war breaks out at some empire time, and existing > wormholes are sealed against attack. In this case the "earlier" > region can send a cloud of wormholes toward their enemies the > old-fashioned way, on rockets, to arrive rather soon in empire time. > If any of the wormhole cloud gets through, a beachhead is formed for > attack. The neutral zone between two hostile civilisations is open to this wormhole-rocket attack, from _both_ civilisations, since the home-worlds both exist at an earlier cosmological, co-moving time than the n-zone. The n-zone lies close to the future light-cone of both home-worlds. However the home-world does have this advantage _within_ its own empire. If we colonise the galaxy and an empire forms, expect rule from Sol, not Trantor. > So the major links between and within civilizations might be under > tight military control, new additions to the network subject to > military veto [...] Agreed. You can imagine the public-good arguments. :-( "Private wormholes are a threat to national security!" A bit like the damnable nuclear non-proliferation treaty, powerful states may seek to exert their control by controlling wormholes. > "Empire" doesn't sound so far-fetched in this case. > > Robin Hanson Mike Price price@price.demon.co.uk AS member (21/3/93) ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 18 June 1993 23:55:59 PST8 From: "James A. Donald" Subject: META: what happened to normal conversation In <9306171639.AA19774@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, GRLW1@phx.cam.ac.uk wrote: > my personal favourite example is comp.ai, > wherein any speculative post is jumped on with loud thudding noises > ("Where's your evidence?" "Prove it!" and, of course, "Ah, but xxx > tried that in 'yy, and he got no-where, so why should you?") There is a great deal of bullshit speculation in AI, people coming up with what they think are brand new bright ideas, but are in fact extremely old ideas that have been brought up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. In my opinion the major problem in that field is an insufficient supply of large heavy hammers to squash these bright ideas. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves and our James A. Donald | property, because of the kind of animals that we | are. True law derives from this right, not from jamesdon@infoserv.com | the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 15:30:28 PDT From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Subject: Tabloid Extropy #1 > > This week's Extropian Gossip brought to you by The Bandit! ....anonymously remailed garbage deleted.... Need I point out I had nothing to do with this? Not my style, not even Klaus!'s style. Expect more of this kind of stuff, though, as anonymous remailers spread. I'm all for them, in the sense I've talked about for the past year or so on thist list, but I'm also for taking countermeasures. One obvious filter to install is a provision that only subscribed members can post to the list, e.g., by checking incoming mail to the list against a list of the several hundred subscribers. (Not sure if this is time-effective, but some names are _already_ screened out, so...) Individuals not wishing to get anonymous posts can also screen the standard names ("nobody," "anonymous," etc.) once the new software by Ray is installed. -Tim -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 23:10:51 GMT From: Michael Clive Price Subject: Failed mail (fwd) Forwarded message follows: > From Sat Jun 19 23:08:06 1993 > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 23:08:03 GMT > Message-Id: <12690@price.demon.co.uk> > From: MAILER-DAEMON@price.demon.co.uk (Mail Delivery Subsystem) > To: price@price.demon.co.uk > Subject: Failed mail > Status: U ===== transcript follows ===== While talking to gnu.ai.mit.edu: >>> DATA <<< 550 ... User unknown: Can't assign requested address ===== Unsent message follows ==== Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 19:28:57 GMT Message-ID: <12672@price.demon.co.uk> From: price@price.demon.co.uk (Michael Clive Price) Reply-To: price@price.demon.co.uk To: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Subject: BIOL: Multicoulured mantis shrimps Lines: 11 X-Mailer: PCElm 3.01 (1.3 gt) A follow up on the colour cones thread. Just heard on the radio of some experiments with colours on mantis shrimps (which comprise a number of species). They have "8 or 9" different colour receptors (as opposed to our 3 (sic), the report said) and can see into the ultraviolet. They are brightly coloured and use their colour spots to identify each others' species, and hence who to attack, mate with, eat or run away from. They spend most of their life fighting, BTW. Mike Price price@price.demon.co.uk AS member (21/3/93) AS member (21/3/93) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1993 18:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Subject: Tabloid Extropy #1 > 3. Eric "Fire Dancer" Raymond gets burned! > Mr. Raymond was flown to an emergency burn center after he and other > pagans attempted to dance across a bed of hot coals. His one comment to > reporters on the scene was "Did ya know my IQ is over 180?" Well, dammit, it was. Until I was kidnapped and lobotomized by a seagoing vegetarian primate wearing this *really kicky* dominatrix outfit... -- Eric S. Raymond ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1993 19:15:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Stanton McCandlish Subject: Tabloid Extropy #1 Quoth Timothy C. May, verily I saith unto thee: > > This week's Extropian Gossip brought to you by The Bandit! > Need I point out I had nothing to do with this? No. Hell, I was going to post that I thought it was inane, and that the joker should leave the satire to those who do it well like Klaus! I think the Klaus!ian Nature is pretty distinguishable. -- Stanton McCandlish * Space Migration * Networking * ChaOrder * NO GOV'T. * anton@hydra.unm.edu * Intelligence Increase * Nano * Crypto * NO RELIGION * FidoNet: 1:301/2 * Life Extension * Ethics * VR * Now! * NO MORE LIES! * Noise in the Void BBS * +1-505-246-8515 (24hr, 1200-14400, v32bis, N-8-1) * ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1993 14:35:55 -0700 (PDT) From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) Subject: LIT: Comedy of Reputations I'm currently writing an SF story and have gotten bogged down. As usual I have a great setting, but the plot and characters need work. Since the story involves crypto-anarchy, it's intended to be a Comedy of Reputations, dealing with the interplay between people in a web of trust. The main character has to make a painful transition from a statist heirarchy of trust to a web of trust in order to solve her problem. Therefore, what would y'all recommend as good literature, featuring strong characters and good dialogue, that deals with reputations and trust? I'm especially interested in fiction dealing with who people trust, and why, to share a romantic relationship or to deal with a life-threatening medical problem, since those are two key features of the story. Thanks a bunch for any pointers. Nick Szabo szabo@techbook.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 20:31:17 -0700 From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Subject: SHOW 'N TELL: Interesting Usenet Newsgroups Every now and then I root through (not an official UNIX term) the 4500+ newsgroups on my NETCOM system, looking for groups that are interesting. Sometimes I find some real gems, as I did tonight with "bionet.info-theory". I vaguely knew it existed, but had not read it, until a posting by Tom Schneider in comp.info-theory said that the "real action" was over in bionet.info-theory. He was right. Here's a representative set of threads (from my "tin" newsreader): 1 8 The information in a road network (again) Tom Schneider 2 2 The information in a [mitochondrial] network Peter Shenkin 3 2 The efficiency of alternative abstractions S. A. Modena 4 25 computer metaphors and DNA MIke Shannon 5 1 where to submit paper on genetic algorithms & Michael Levin 6 3 need examples of protein signal sequences Michael Levin 7 13 Followup to Hardware, Software, and Folding . lakerb@rcwusr.bp.c 8 1 cooking Tom Schneider 9 2 Responding to Steven, Dave, Tom, Alan and oth S. A. Modena 10 Finite Automata lakerb@rcwusr.bp.c 11 Entropy of mitochondrion soup (was Re: The in Malcolm Shute 12 Bio-info theory post doc posn wanted Suresh Krishnajois 13 3 Ribosomes, DNA transcription, and "informatio Doug Elias 14 28 erasure of information and dissipation franco lombardo 15 7 Protein folding (Was Re: computer metaphors a Paul Barton-Davis 16 Morowitz Tom Schneider 17 3 Scrodinger on entropy (from "What is Life?") Venkatesh Murthy 18 4 Jurrasic Park: Reconstructing dinosaurs lakerb@rcwusr.bp.c 19 42 Biological information theory Una Smith This is right up my alley of current interests, sequence spaces, viral self-replication, Chaitin, entropy, and the like. (BTW, the latest "Scientific American" has a very readable article by Nobel laureate Manfred Eigen on "Quasi-species").Your smileage may vary, vis-a-vis this particular newsgroup, which is why I'm proposing this challenge. My "show 'n tell" challenge is this: describe a newsgroup you especially like, perhaps one you have recently discovered. Expose us to new ideas! With several thousand newsgroups, a very useful and Extropian thing to do is to alert others of us to your finds. Kind of an "Extropian Gopher" (he said with archied eyebrows, already wise to the wais of the world). Certainly easier than hunting for a needle in a sixpack. -Tim May -- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: by arrangement Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1993 22:58:18 -0500 From: extr@jido.b30.ingr.com (Craig Presson) Subject: HUMOR: EXTROPIAN BABES, alt.sex, and Flying Yogis In <9306182337.AA10617@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, Eric S. Raymond writes: |> > I assume that the other possible conclusion, that most men are horny |> > little twits, has already occured to her ;-) |> |> Hey. My *girlfriend* thought that picture was hot... :-) Lucky you. But I'll bet she didn't put on a colorful mating display in response like some of us Extro-boys :-) Anyway, it's good to see the liberal humor wing, like Spy and Doonesbury, taking shots at Hillary and the Clin-tones. Today's Doonesbury had the White house staff working on how to put together just _one_ error-free week. The punch line was "Well, sir, first you go on vacation ..." ^ / ------/---- extropy@jido.b30.ingr.com (Freeman Craig Presson) /AS 5/20/373 PNO /ExI 4/373 PNO ** E' and E-choice spoken here ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 01:24:31 -0400 (EDT) From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Subject: HUMOR: EXTROPIAN BABES, alt.sex, and Flying Yogis > In <9306182337.AA10617@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, Eric S. Raymond writes: > |> > I assume that the other possible conclusion, that most men are horny > |> > little twits, has already occured to her ;-) > |> > |> Hey. My *girlfriend* thought that picture was hot... :-) > > Lucky you. But I'll bet she didn't put on a colorful mating display > in response like some of us Extro-boys :-) True. She helped me toss von der Perfect in the cold shower. He just lay there, whimpering... -- Eric S. Raymond ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 00:58:17 -0700 From: dasher@netcom.com (D. Anton Sherwood) Subject: sex > Just to help skew data, I'll note that all four of the women > I've been really serious with started by asking me out. Same here. (Same number, even.) And in my case they were all more or less Jewish, whatever that means! > (Mixed bag, about half and half, for the men, but that's a different > story anyway.) (I've received three or four gay passes in my life, and made none. ;) *\\* Anton ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 00:18:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Carol Moore Subject: PERSONAL:Shhhh//Re: SOC/CHAT: The Truth Romana, please! Don't let everyone know about our plan to kidnap you know who! I mean we could get kicked off the list for a week for such behavior...unless he enjoyed it and didn't report it. (-: cmoore@cap.gwu.edu :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 14:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Shapiro Subject: Info/pub: June British GQ I have recently found the June Issue of British GQ to be on sale here in New York. I think it has recently been placed on the "stands." FYI, this is the issue that has a several page story on the Extropian movement. We are called a cult. That and a few other niggling points not with standing, it was a rather good article. /hawk -- Harry Shapiro habs@panix.com List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 10:51:23 GMT From: "Stephen J. Whitrow" Subject: Seagoing Primates and Undersea Domes > From: "Eric S. Raymond" >> If the monkeys didn't swim between islands, and islands and mainland, this >> would seem to support the more mystical interpretations of the 'food washing >> meme propagation' phenomenon! > Sigh. I believe the so-called "hundredth-monkey" phenomenon has been exposed > as a hoax --- I read somewhere that the guy who started it all has admitted > that he wrote his at-the-time-alleged-to-be-nonfiction about it as an > eco-fable to help save the planet. Anyone know who the hoaxer was -- Lyall Watson or one of his sources? If it was Watson that seems reasonable considering all his other tales. And his ultimate ambition is to be recycled back to Nature just as his grandfather was, by having his bones scattered to be pecked by vultures. Steve Whitrow sjw@liberty.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 15:34:21 EDT From: sulko-m@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mark A. Sulkowski) Subject: CULT: extropians From: Harry Shapiro >I have recently found the June Issue of British GQ to be on sale >here in New York. I think it has recently been placed on the "stands." > >FYI, this is the issue that has a several page story on the Extropian >movement. We are called a cult. [...] But is our cult BATF approved? =============================================================================== | |\ /| | "But we must not follow those who advise us, being men, to | | \\ // | think of human things, and, being mortal, of mortal things, | | \\// | but must, so far as we can, make ourselves immortal..." | | Mark \/enture | - Aristotle, _The Nicomachean Ethics_ | =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 13:58:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Stanton McCandlish Subject: HUMOUR: bones picked by vultures (was SeaMonkeys or something) Quoth Stephen J. Whitrow, verily I saith unto thee: > Anyone know who the hoaxer was -- Lyall Watson or one of his sources? If it > was Watson that seems reasonable considering all his other tales. And his > ultimate ambition is to be recycled back to Nature just as his grandfather > was, by having his bones scattered to be pecked by vultures. Fine by me...that's one less person in the cryo line! -- Stanton McCandlish * Space Migration * Networking * ChaOrder * NO GOV'T. * anton@hydra.unm.edu * Intelligence Increase * Nano * Crypto * NO RELIGION * FidoNet: 1:301/2 * Life Extension * Ethics * VR * Now! * NO MORE LIES! * Noise in the Void BBS * +1-505-246-8515 (24hr, 1200-14400, v32bis, N-8-1) * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 16:13:35 EDT From: sulko-m@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mark A. Sulkowski) Subject: CATO and Marilyn vos Savant This might have been discussed earlier, but I'll take the chance that it wasn't. Just yesterday, I received my latest CATO Memorandum which contained several photocopied articles of interest to CATO members from various newspapers. There was a particularly interesting article from the _Washington Times_ (Tuesday, May 11, 1993). I quote: "The criticism against the Clinton administration was all the more damaging because the crowd was made up in large part of public policy experts. When Mr. Crane asked for anyone who had done work for Cato to stand, about a third of the crowd got up. "One person who didn't was Marilyn vos Savant, who has one of the highest IQs ever recorded. She didn't rule out the possibility of joining the Cato ranks. "'They want me to, but they haven't ASKED me to,' she said. 'It might be interesting.'" Maybe ExI should have a talk with her? Also, I wasn't aware that she might have libertarian leanings. The article also reported two jokes about CATO's (libertarian) philosophy that were given at a CATO gathering. P.J. O'Rourke said: There you have the Cato philosophy in a nutshell. Government should be against the law. And Dick Armey explained "Armey's Axiom": The market's rational. The government's dumb. =============================================================================== | |\ /| | "But we must not follow those who advise us, being men, to | | \\ // | think of human things, and, being mortal, of mortal things, | | \\// | but must, so far as we can, make ourselves immortal..." | | Mark \/enture | - Aristotle, _The Nicomachean Ethics_ | =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 14:50:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Stanton McCandlish Subject: CULT: Extropians Asketh Mark Venture: > But is our cult BATF approved? Sorry to risk time paradox like this, but going thru my Extropian mail from years ago, I just had to send this back. Took a while...the time machine was acting up... Article summary Paper: _Lunar_News_Tribune_ Date: March 23, 2014 by-line: Helen Bach Title: Branch Extropians Up in Flames? Subtitle: Bay-Area Cult's Fated Shootout with BATFC [summarized in original order] On March 5th, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Cryptography, ostensibly to deliver a search warrant, raided the recently-constructed "Extropian Arcology", the heavily fortified citadel of the "ExI" cult. The Arcology, located on Alcatraz Is. (purchased from the state of California in 1998), was defended by military-grade cryptography, and heavy arms, allegedly purchased from a bankrupt African government which was shortly destroyed by ExI as being "statist" and "entropian". The raid team consisted of 45 ATFC agents, all of whom were killed while approaching the door by an automated AI security system, and 450 troops on loan from the FBI, National Guard, California State Correctness Police, and Sony-G.E. ATFC head, Dorothy Denning, was quoted as saying that the entire purpose of the mission was simply to serve a warrant, despite any evidence to the contrary. The warrant was issued on suspicion that the cult was in possession of firearms, a 1st degree felony, illegal cryptographic software, and an unregistered aritificial intelligence, and of course were molesting children and dealing drugs. After the initial destruction of the ATFC agents, the remaining troops retreated and called in an airstrike. When the ACLU questioned this action, President Gore responded in a press release that, "well, these loons were a threat to the National Data Highway, and had to be stopped." Inspection of the destroyed Island revealed no casualties, though the new ATFC crew sent to the scene report finding a warren of tunnels under the vaporized structure, that appear to lead to a submarine docking station on the island's eastern side. As of March 23, no evidence that any ExI members were killed has been found. "We think they got away," said an ATFC special agent, who preferred to remain anonymous, "and there's no telling where these dangerous nuts will show up next. We suspect Singapore or Jamaica." The agent further elaborated, saying the "Branch Extropians" as he calls them are a paramilitary conspiracy, in which all members are trained in the use of firearms, which were banned in 1999, and which espouses the destruction of governments, and the creation of "free markets", untraceable digital cash, and "personal empowerment" by something called "cognitive enhancement", the practice of taking megadoses of dangerous drugs, in hopes of "expanding the mind". This Extropian cult is known to promise immortality and godhead to recruits, and to blind their followers with talk of auctioning off the universe, defeating entropy, and inhabiting the the world network as "uploaded" non-physical beings. The agent, who's father was killed in the remarkably similar raid on the Waco, Texas cult of David Koresh in 1993, continued: "There's nothing these wackos think they can't do. They're ungodly, and a plague on upstanding, moral society. The scary part is their agents are everywhere; some of the top scientist in our own government and corporations are part of the Extropian conspiracy". At present, law enforcement has no leads, and optimism about catching the ExI cult members is waning. ********************** end summary *************************************** Better watch out folks... -- Dr. Stanton McCandlish * Space Migration * Networking * ChaOrder * NO GOV'T. * anton@mare.imbrium.luna* Intelligence Increase * Nano * Crypto * NO RELIGION * MoonNet: 4590:301/2 * Life Extension * Ethics * VR * Now! * NO MORE LIES! * Noise in the Void BBS * 95-505-246-8515 (24hr, 576000bps, v232bis, N-8-1) * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 15:03:59 -0700 (PDT) From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) Subject: DIET: Weight loss plans Tim Starr: > ...a weight-loss diet whereby you eat at least 2000 calories per day > in order to trigger your metabolism's fat-burning mechanism - the all you > can eat diet plan. Any truth to this? I presume it matters WHAT you eat, > and the idea that your body goes into fat storage mode when "starving" > sounds plausible, but how 'bout it? I'd stay away from this kind of diet. There was one plan that was popular a few years ago where you eat most calories as *fat* (no carbs and few proteins). To obtain useful calories your body has to burn the fat, thus turning on "fat-burning mode". Part of the regimen is you piss in a cup every day to detect ketones generated by rapid fat-burning (you can buy test kits at the drugstore for $10). For most people once they're in this mode, their appetite goes down and it's easy to diet by calorie reduction (600-1,000 kcal/day). There's several problems with this diet. The first is that ketones are toxic. The second is that if your fat-burning mechanism is working right (eg you are not chromium deficient), you will generate less ketones per calorie of fat burned, so the piss test won't be accurate. The third is that when you end this diet plan, your body thinks it has been starving through the winter and starts gorging on food, causing rebound. One lesson I learned from reading about this diet is that any rapid fat-burning diet will generate toxic ketones. During my recent weight loss phase I (1) did the piss-in-the-cup to make sure ketones stayed low, (2) increased antioxidant supplements during periods of rapid weight loss, (3) got an accurate scale, and tried to stay between 1 and 3 lbs. weight loss per week (this is tricky because my weight fluctuates that much daily from food & water intake), (4) minimized fat intake to the greatest extent possible, (5) 400 mcg/day chromium picolinate, (6) strategic use of phenylpropanolamine (Acutrim "Late Day Strength", since calories put on in the evening go on as fat) c. twice/week, eg on days I wasn't going to exercise. (Exercise lowers appetite for many people, including me). The result was a very long-term diet that basically involved permanent change in eating habits. I've gone from 240 lbs. to 180 lbs. in a little over 6 months, and am in "keeping it off mode" right now, which basically involves maintaining most of the new habits I learned during the weight loss, instead of rebounding like 90% of people do after a diet. One thing I've noticed is that my metabolism is much lower. My calorie intake in "maintence mode" is still well under 2,000 kcal/day without further weight loss. If I went back to my old eating habits I would quickly rebound. Salad is now the main dish. :-) N.B.: Metabolisms differ, so this may or may not apply for others who would like to reduce weight. For example, those who were overweight as children or obese (240 pounds is on the borderline for this effect) grow extra fat cells which may cause things to work differently. This weight loss plan is of my own design, but I did borrow heavily from _The Life Extension Weight Loss Plan_ by Pearson & Shaw and the various Pritikin books. Nick Szabo szabo@techbook.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 16:21:00 -0600 From: hammar@cs.unm.edu Subject: FRAUD: 100 monkeys. "Stephen J. Whitrow" wrote: >> From: "Eric S. Raymond" >> Sigh. I believe the so-called "hundredth-monkey" phenomenon has been exposed >> as a hoax --- I read somewhere that the guy who started it all has admitted >> that he wrote his at-the-time-alleged-to-be-nonfiction about it as an >> eco-fable to help save the planet. > >Anyone know who the hoaxer was -- Lyall Watson or one of his sources? If it I don't remember the name of the original hoaxer, or what (if anything) he admitted to, but there is an excellent debunking of the 100 Monkeys in _The Fringes Of Reason_. It's worth reading even if you don't care for the 100 Monkey BS, as it's an excellent case study in how to get pseudoscience accepted as real by the general populace. I'll reread it when I go home, and post a summary if anyone is interested. A few things I remember: The original con-artist gave references to peer-reviewed articles. Actually reading them proves what nonsence the theory is. The real study involved watching all the monkeys on an island for at least two of their generations. There were less than 100 monkeys in the study. (It was a small island.) They named every individual monkey, and several young adult males from other islands immigrated to the study island during mating season. Young males from the test group left the island, sometimes permanantly, to hunt for mates. Nothing special happened concerning washing food. A young female discovered a neat trick, and taught it to some of her peers. Very few older monkeys were willing to learn it, and some from her age group refused to try it. Once she grew up and had her own babies, she taught them, and all of that younger generation learned it from the (now adult role model) monkeys who used it. The old farts gradually died off, leaving a tribe of monkeys who all wash their food. (Sorta like the spread of QM, or warm-blooded dinosour theory, or evolution, or...) ^^^^^^^^ (I just noticed the typo, but instead of editing it out, I'm going to claim it's an ancient Chinese dish, dinosaur in sweet and sour sauce.) Neil Hammar hammar@unmvax.cs.unm.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 17:25:02 -0600 From: zane@genesis.mcs.com (Sameer) Subject: CHAT: Self-portraits (.gif) In message <9306172341.AA25621@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, Stanton McCandlish writes: > > Would anyone else be into this? (keeping in mind that files 100k+ would > need to be split up.) I'd suggest that an Extropians ftp-site be set up where these large files may be placed so that people with quotas (mine's about 10 megs, but I'm skirting the edge) don't have problems. -- | Sameer Parekh-zane@genesis.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@genesis.MCS.COM | | Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | | "Symbiosis is Good" - Me_"Specialization is for Insects" - R. A. Heinlein_/ \_______________________/ \______________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 21:06:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Shapiro Subject: CHAT: Self-portraits (.gif) a conscious being, Sameer wrote: > I'd suggest that an Extropians ftp-site be set up where these > large files may be placed so that people with quotas (mine's about 10 > megs, but I'm skirting the edge) don't have problems. Someday the we will have an exi-binaries mailing list, but that would put to much of strain on the GNU site. So I agree some FTP site would be best. /hawk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 20:40:58 -0800 From: Bruce.Baugh@p23.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Baugh) Subject: AltInst Request My hard drive just acted up. Could somebody send me the AltInst info again, please? Thanks. UUCP m2xenix!qiclab!therose INTERNET: therose.fidonet.org FIDONET: 1:105/7.0 DATA: (503) 286-3855 UUCP <> FidoNet(tm) Gate is a public service provided by therose **Reply messages should not be sent to/through therose.pdx.com** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 00:39:10 -0700 From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Subject: NOVEL: "Assemblers of Infinity" I just finished an acceptable novel about nanotech, "Assemblers of Infinity," by Kevin Anderson and Doug Beason, paperback, Feb. 1993. I say "acceptable" because the Jeffrey Carver novels about nanotech were, to me, unreadable. So much nanogarbage is being written these days... The Plot: Alien nanomachines are building a mysterious structure in a crater on the far side of the moon. Humans who venture too close are disassembled. Earth is panicked, and calls in top nanotech researchers from Stanford, MIT, and the "Nanotech Isolation Lab" in Antarctica. The detective mystery, to figure out what's happening, and the thriller, to save the Earth, make up most of the novel. The exposition of nanotechnology, grey goo, Von Neumann probes, and so forth, is pretty good. I'd certainly recommend it over the fluffery of "Unbounding the Future," as an introduction to nanotech. More fun to read, too. Not nearly in a class with Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep," Stephenson's "Snow Crash," and the like, but OK for a quick read. Cheers, -Tim -- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: by arrangement Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it. ------------------------------ End of Extropians Digest V93 Issue #0344 ****************************************