From extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Fri Jun 11 18:08:12 1993 Return-Path: Received: from usc.edu by chaph.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.0) id AA03400; Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:08:10 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: from wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA19363; Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:08:03 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: by wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (5.65/4.0) id ; Fri, 11 Jun 93 20:54:46 -0400 Message-Id: <9306120054.AA14289@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: ExI-Daily@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 20:54:19 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <9306120054.AA14282@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Original-To: Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu From: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Subject: Extropians Digest V93 #0319 X-Extropian-Date: Remailed on June 12, 373 P.N.O. [00:54:45 UTC] Reply-To: Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Status: OR Extropians Digest Sat, 12 Jun 93 Volume 93 : Issue 0319 Today's Topics: BOOK: Beggars in Spain (Kress) [1 msgs] CHAT: Better unsubscribe! [1 msgs] DIET: A,C,E [1 msgs] Job: My Resume - Looking for a job [1 msgs] NANOTECH: Bearding the Drexler in his Den [2 msgs] Nanotech Moonshots and Government Funding [3 msgs] Preliminary to "sci.space update" [1 msgs] QM: Theories vs. Interpretations [1 msgs] Review: The Aenead? [1 msgs] SOC: Birth Order and Extropians [1 msgs] SPACE/FREE: Governments in Space [2 msgs] Sex Differences (Math) [1 msgs] Sex Differences: Who's talking? [1 msgs] The Path to Nanotechnology [1 msgs] unsubscribe me [4 msgs] Administrivia: This is the digested version of the Extropian mailing list. Please remember that this list is private; messages must not be forwarded without their author's permission. To send mail to the list/digest, address your posts to: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu To send add/drop requests for this digest, address your post to: exi-daily-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu To make a formal complaint or an administrative request, address your posts to: extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu If your mail reader is operating correctly, replies to this message will be automatically addressed to the entire list [extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu] - please avoid long quotes! The Extropian mailing list is brought to you by the Extropy Institute, through hardware, generously provided, by the Free Software Foundation - neither is responsible for its content. Forward, Onward, Outward - Harry Shapiro (habs) List Administrator. Approximate Size: 52354 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 15:01:08 -0700 From: cappello%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (Peter Cappello) Subject: SOC: Birth Order and Extropians What order child were you (1st, 2nd, etc.)? 4th. How many children did your parents have? 5. Do you think yourself more or less likely to support new theories, right or wrong, than the average person? Not sure. (I'm more likely to give serious consideration to new theories than the average person.) -Pete cappello@cs.ucsb.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:06:01 WET DST From: rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) Subject: QM: Theories vs. Interpretations Michael Clive Price writes: > > Many-worlds _does_ make testable predictions. > > Dr David Deutsch has proposed an experiment by which a conscious, > artifical mind, composed of reversable logic circuits and memory units > can perform a simple experiment (say, measuring the spin of an electron) > and storing the result, in its reversible memory. It then reverses the > memory storage process and interaction with the test electron. If many- > worlds is correct the original state of the electron is restored. What > does copenhagen/HUT/implicate order predict? Depends who you ask.... Isn't this basically the same as the "quantum eraser" setup? Measure a particle, "unmeasure" it and its original state is restored. Frankly, I'm a little skeptical how far this information destruction/ state reconstruction process can be taken. For instance, suppose my computer measures a particle in a trap, and then John peeks at the screen. John takes a vow of silence. Five years later, the computer tries to "unmeasure" the particle in the trap. Will it be restored to its original state, or will the process be spoiled by John's knowledge? What if I kill John first, then have the computer unmeasure the particle? There's a lot of speculation in popular science books about macroscopic tests of quantum theory (macroscopic matter wave interference, e.g. baseball double slit experiment) but I remain skeptical about them working. I guess my main argument is I don't see how a machine with finite memory store a quantum state. Sure, it could store the result of a spin measurement, but how can it reverse the interaction with the test electron? -- Ray Cromwell | Engineering is the implementation of science; -- -- EE/Math Student | politics is the implementation of faith. -- -- rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu | - Zetetic Commentaries -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 14:57:37 -0700 From: Valerie Lambert Subject: Sex Differences: Who's talking? In X-Message-Number 0775, szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) wonders aloud why there aren't more women participating in fun technical discussions. Besides some obvious factors--already discussed in gory detail many times on the net--that have lead to a low female/male ratio in scientific education, employment, and resulting "communities," I would add the following personal observations: I am an avowed technophile, but I don't have even 1/100 of the time and energy I would like to study and add something meaningful to the many fields I am interested in. I remain a broadly informed layperson, an expert at very little. Why? 1) I have a short attention span; 2) Because of the way I arrange my priorities to stay sane. After 50+ hrs/wk at an intense biotech software startup company, talking shop with a few friends, barely keeping up with a couple dozen technical newsgroups and mailing lists, and pursuing the odd information business opportunity, part of me whines, "I don't _wanna_ be chained to a workstation or terminal! I don't _wanna_ go to any more nerdy meetings!" I have to balance my waking hours with lots of time by myself, music, recreational reading, meditation, vegging (yes, I'm addicted to ST:DSN, Simpsons, and Twin Peaks), and other decidely low-tech activities. (Maybe my uploaded personality will be less prone to tire of intense work on technical projects? I hope so. Of course, I also hope that uploading does not cause a loss of vivid perception and appreciation of the artistic and spiritual.) I've not noticed my expressed point of view being blatantly disrespected in a room full of men, unless I start speaking before my brain engages--which occasionally happens, when I try too hard to be included. I have to turn my almost non-existent aggression _way_ up to get a word edge-wise into the fray. Our [mish-mash American, patriarchy rooted] culture has taught us, by example, that men have the right--nay, the responsibility--to lead discussions. Women are supposed to listen. These deep programs take considerable effort to overcome, even when the participants consider themselves modern thinkers who do not discriminate on basis of gender. I must admit an aversion to men who can _only_ talk wizzy. Especially if it is to impress rather than interact and synthesize. Or if they use it to avoid a personal topic that really needs to be addressed, instead. And yes, I tire of advances that seem to be inspired by my packaging instead of my contents. Nick, I've probably offended someone, too. But I'm glad you broached the subject, because it made me realize I had something to say about it. As a postscript to this barely-list-topical message, I would like to say that I enjoy Extropians more than any other list or group on the net. I do not mind wading through the sea of messages to find the treasures of speculation, wit, and unexpected merging of ideas from what I thought were unrelated fields. Thank you all for expanding my limits. -- Valerie Lambert ~ BioCAD Corporation ~ valerie@biocad.com "Any sufficiently compressed data is indistinguishable from Spam(R)." --Kibo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 15:39:47 -0700 From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Subject: Nanotech Moonshots and Government Funding Wholly molely, another critical typo that has to be corrected: >is, and hence funding of it is necessary. He cited the growing Japanese >national efforts. Both Phil and I pressed on him whether he was calling for >national funding, a national effort (the "Moonshot" approach), or similar. >We skirted the issue and said it "might" be needed, and it might be a case >where the benefits to the populace justified a centralized approach. I meant to say "He skirted the issue....." Neither Phil nor I ever gave a moment's credence to the idea of a national nanotech research effort. -Tim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 18:16:01 -0400 (EDT) From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Subject: NANOTECH: Bearding the Drexler in his Den This talk of Drexler supporting some kind of nano-Manhattan-project approach makes me uneasy. Fortunately, I should be able to put questions myself soon, as I'm coming west for Worldcon. Eric Dean Tribble is throwing a "Too Many Erics" party in the Bay Area sometime later this summer. If (as, after our last conversation, seems not unlikely) the date is the weekend before Worldcon (that is, the weekend of Aug 28), I will certainly be there. K. Eric Drexler will almost certainly be there too. I will inquire of him closely on this matter.... -- >>eric>> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 16:02:45 -0800 From: romana@apple.com (Romana Machado) Subject: CHAT: Better unsubscribe! mph said: >Could you please take me off the extropian newsgroup >I am sick of getting all of these boring messages from egotistical >know it alls who have as much wisdom as my cat > Bien sur. Mais mon chat est plus gentille que votre chat. Romana Machado ---------- "She-Who-Must" romana@apple.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 23:31:29 -40962758 (MET DST) From: psto Subject: Job: My Resume - Looking for a job Find a market for the following. 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Contact Lulu Technologies Peter Stone Churchilllaan 46 III 1078 EH Amsterdam tel&fax: +31-20-6757 993 If you cannot get contact, then try: Media Magic Kim Baukham 2 Beacon Rd Hither Green London SE13 6EH tel: 081 297 8366 /// Yours, Peter :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:42:29 EST From: mike@highlite.gotham.COM (Mike Wiik) Subject: DIET: A,C,E > > > hhuang@athena.mit.edu says: > > The post said that people who > > take too much C, without watching their intake of A, were doing > > themselves more harm than good, as the C will drain the body's supply > > of A, which is stored in the liver. > > I dunno. I'd like to hear more about this. Myself, I take 25000 IU > equivalent of Beta Carotine along with the 750mg of C and 400 IU of E I've understood that your body will synthesize all the A it needs from Beta Carotine, such that you can't overdose on it (within reason). Durk & Sandy have claimed that you know when you are taking enough beta carotine because your palms will turn yellow. Yikes! I'm taking 100K IU of Beta Carotine, 1600 IU of E and 5-10 grams of C daily, but my palms ain't too yellow yet (I'm sure my diet and habits aren't any- where near as healthy as Perry's, though). Along with the B complex, extra niacin, selenium, multivitamin, 1/4 aspirin etc it comes to about 20-30 pills on a good day... I've seen water-soluble E at stores, it's slightly less expensive. I'm wondering if I should space out doses of this (as I do with C) instead of taking it all at once, which I understand is sufficient for oil-based vites. Is there a nutritionist in the house? How do you all feel about fish? > Perry -mike mike@highlite.gotham.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:12:19 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: Nanotech Moonshots and Government Funding X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Robin Hanson says: > Here's another argument against govt nano funding. > > Years ago the main argument Drexler gave for why we should all be > thinking about nanotech was that the more lead time we had to > think/talk before it happened, the better we might avoid various > dangers in the transition. We should hurry up the public debate even > if the transition is a ways off. > > By this argument, pressing ahead with moon-shot development is a bad > idea, even if it could accelerate development. As fnerd says, such > projects make it even harder to integrate a technology into society. Indeed, I believe that nanotechnology in the hands of current governmental authorities would lead to an unbreakable dictatorship. My real, Honest-To-Ghod(TM) hope is that we have enough time to smash the state and get used to that before nanotech arrives. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 16:22:37 -0700 (PDT) From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) Subject: SPACE/FREE: Governments in Space Tim May: > Watch out for the thermal signature!... > large IR telescopes--successors to today's heat-seeking > sensors--should be able to map out just which asteroids are inhabited, and > which are not.)... > Perhaps sophisticated heat pumps and Peltier effect coolers could be used > to make the side facing the oncoming hunter/seeker/killers appear as cold > as an asteroid should look, It's probably easier to make other asteroids look warm. With km^2 size mirrors solar energy is practically free, so we can heat thousands of km^2 of surface: large thin-film balloons, asteroid surfaces, tank farms, industrial sites, habitats, etc. Using a pattern-generating paint gun we can create quite sophisticated IR patterns that make thousands of km^2 of surface area IR-indistiguishable in terms of habitat vs. industrial vs. dead. Crypto-surface science. Industrial emissions into the solar wind are another means of detection, but if the colony spaces out the industries along several million klicks of the orbit this won't give away the habitats. Also, since the asteroids and Jupiter-family comets provide plenty of mass to burn, just go down-orbit a few million klicks and toss dust or ice overboard. "Those dratted space polluters, they've already taken over the half the belt!" For extra stealth, just keep moving the various pieces around; by the time the probe data is beamed back to supercomputers and analyzed it will be out of date. This reminds me of one of the Fermi-paradox theories, that ET civilizations are out there but hiding on purpose, perhaps from marauding VNMs that home on signs of "intelligence". (And are coming our way even as I type! :-) Nick Szabo szabo@techbook.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:23:31 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: NANOTECH: Bearding the Drexler in his Den X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Eric S. Raymond says: > > This talk of Drexler supporting some kind of nano-Manhattan-project approach > makes me uneasy. Fortunately, I should be able to put questions myself soon, > as I'm coming west for Worldcon. > > Eric Dean Tribble is throwing a "Too Many Erics" party in the Bay Area someti me > later this summer. If (as, after our last conversation, seems not unlikely) > the date is the weekend before Worldcon (that is, the weekend of Aug 28), I > will certainly be there. Thats the same weekend as the Extropians gala, isn't it? .pm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 18:12:02 -0500 From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: Review: The Aenead? >Coming next: REVIEW: _The Aenead_, 2400 years on the best-seller list. You're not going to review it for another 350 years? pgf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:15:43 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: unsubscribe me X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Michael P. Hall says: > Could you please take me off the extropian newsgroup > I am sick of getting all of these boring messages from egotistical > know it alls who have as much wisdom as my cat But apparently you lack the wisdom to remember that you don't unsubscribe to ANY internet mailing list by sending mail to the whole list. Ironic, isn't it? For those others among you who feel that living forever is a horrible thing to want to do, or who dislike freedom, the right address is extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu -- the one you sent mail to in order to subscribe, REMEMBER? For any internet list foo@domain, there exists a list foo-request@domain such that foo-request@domain is the proper list for requests. This is extremely easy to remember -- memorizing it now will save you the embarassment of having hundreds to thousands of people think you are an idiot later. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:16:20 CST From: "" Subject: unsubscribe me On Fri, 11 Jun 93 17:28:15 EDT, Michael P. Hall wrote: >Could you please take me off the extropian newsgroup >I am sick of getting all of these boring messages from egotistical >know it alls who have as much wisdom as my cat Perhaps your cat would like to join in your place? Be interesting to read messages trying to convert a cat to vegetarianism. Dan Goodman dsg@staff.tc.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 19:22:47 WET DST From: rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) Subject: unsubscribe me Michael P. Hall writes: > > Could you please take me off the extropian newsgroup > I am sick of getting all of these boring messages from egotistical > know it alls who have as much wisdom as my cat It's amazing that some people simply can not unsubscribe a mailing list/newsgroup (btw, this is a mailing list) without getting in a snide remark as the last word. It is also amazing that some people are incapable of following simple directions, like which address to send subscription/unsubscription requests to. Your request probably won't be acknowledged unless you send it to extropians-request. Next time, get your cat to unsubscribe for you. He might understand the welcome message instructions and act a little more polite, unlike you. -- Ray Cromwell | Engineering is the implementation of science; -- -- EE/Math Student | politics is the implementation of faith. -- -- rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu | - Zetetic Commentaries -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:28:30 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: unsubscribe me X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission "" says: > On Fri, 11 Jun 93 17:28:15 EDT, Michael P. Hall wrote: > > >Could you please take me off the extropian newsgroup > >I am sick of getting all of these boring messages from egotistical > >know it alls who have as much wisdom as my cat > > Perhaps your cat would like to join in your place? Be interesting to read > messages trying to convert a cat to vegetarianism. Can't be done, I'm afraid. Well, it can, but I think its cruel. I'm a veggie for health reasons only -- if someone proved to me that the most effective life extension technique around was to strangle newborn kittens every morning, I'd be sprinting to the pet store (sorry cat lovers). Anyway, converting kitty to vegetarianism will likely cause her/him a taurine deficiency capable of causing blindness, but beyond that, why do it since cats are built for eating meat and stay healthiest on it? Give your cat that steak -- its good for it -- and eat a good salad yourself -- its good for you. In any case, as to feline wisdom, I actually WOULD find it interesting to find a cat as wise as the average extropian -- it would at the very least provide an alien point of view on the list, something we haven't yet had. I would certainly welcome Mr. Hall's cat. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 16:37:58 PDT From: Jerry_Wedekind.ES_CP8@xerox.com Subject: Nanotech Moonshots and Government Funding Robin Hanson writes: >Years ago the main argument Drexler gave for why we should all be >thinking about nanotech was that the more lead time we had to >think/talk before it happened, the better we might avoid various >dangers in the transition. We should hurry up the public debate even >if the transition is a ways off. >By this argument, pressing ahead with moon-shot development is a bad >idea, even if it could accelerate development. As fnerd says, such >projects make it even harder to integrate a technology into society. I'm hard pressed to fault this reasoning except on the selfish grounds that under Robin's assumption "moon-shot" development makes it somewhat more likely that *this* country and *this* generation will benefit (but even if the cost were zero, would such parochial considerations justify the increase in expected dislocation)? Note that the quoted argument also applies to private efforts which significantly accelerate development relative to debate and assimilation. Finally, as an aside, it appears that the argument applies in spades to e.g. focused SETI efforts, whether public or private; their potential for dislocation is enormous. Does this change your assessment of SETI, or of the argument?-) Cheers, Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Subject: BOOK: Beggars in Spain (Kress) > The book is very EC in some ways and very non-EC in other ways. Agreed. The book is basically a sustained moral argument; it accepts libertarian premises as the right ones, then asked "What do the strong owe the weak?" Highly recommended. -- Eric S. Raymond ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 16:48:19 PDT From: Robin Hanson Subject: SPACE/FREE: Governments in Space Thanks to Nick Szabo, Tim May, Marc Ringuette, and especially Mark Desilets for their thoughtful comments on near space war. While some have argued for stealth colonies, I doubt many would exist unless as a response to a long period of intense warfare. Hopefully, most of the economy will feel safer than that, allowing visitors, etc. so that most locations are known. For such colonies, attack is likely to be cheaper than defense, giving more of a MAD (mutual assured destruction) type military equilibrium. This may have serious instabilities with many parties, but hopefully we'll live to find some way to deal with them. Space may indeed be marginally a better place to found an anarchist colony, but the margin may not be high, and not much due to a superior defensibility of space colonies. The important thing is for a local majority to want to be an anarchy, to be temporarily able to make the switch, and from then on to not be seen as a threat by its neighbors, and strong enough to deter aggression. The best defense is from trading partners and allies who want you to stay around, and from a strong local economy. Robin Hanson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 19:36:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Carol Moore Subject: Sex Differences (Math) On Wed, 9 Jun 1993, Edward J OConnell wrote: > In my sex differences course (laugh all you want, it was pretty good) we > were exposed to data that showed girls doing as well as or better than > boys, up to about middle school, then a sharp decline, that corresponded > largely with them being tracked out of high level math and science programs, > to be replaced by boys with generally lower scores. > > Girls learn before boys that being a geek is very, very uncool. > Unfeminine is more like it. Just to give one woman's example (I was in high school from 62-66 but I think many of same dynamics still reply), here's the reason my math SAT scores were 200 points lower than verbal. (And I was an "intellectual" out to prove I was as good as the boys!) 1) Mother and other significant females stressing they couldn't do math, which gave me overall feeling of fear and incompetence which I have not yet lost. 2) Feeling wasn't going into any field where math was important (like being an english teacher--my goal til discovered poli-sci and petty political activism) 3) Boys hostility to those girls who were better in math (not that I let that bother me on the CONSCIOUS level, but then there's the unconscious). 4) Probably the phenomena that teachers picked more on boys for math answers than girls (I hear it still happens now so assume it did then.) I didn't have math answers but I was always an aggressive hand raiser in everything else--and boy would my arms get tired sometimes!! While there may or may not be slight genetic differences between females and males, the cultural ones are overwhelming. (And who knows, maybe there are morphogenetic math fields that are different between men and women. HOHOHO Joke Joke Joke :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 17:10:39 -0700 (PDT) From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) Subject: The Path to Nanotechnology Perry Metzger: > Now if [Drexler]'d only come up with a business plan for a for-profit, > I bet he can raise plenty. ...If he REALLY believes in his "billions > lost every day" figure, then he should be rushing out to cash in. With nanotech as a business venture, Tim May's points about the "path to nanotech" become all-important. Businesses, or at least commercial research labs, are at this time investing in all the following: * diamond deposition (thin film, from polymers, etc.) * programmable catalysts (lithography, STM, nanocrystal packings, etc.) * protein design * artificial membranes to hold cell cultures and deliver drugs in vivo * metabolic engineering (genetic engineering geared towards producing new and/or greater amounts of chemicals) * STM-based hard disk drives * KHz speed, free-floating robot arms * micromechanics fab & CAD (you can design and order your own micromechanical parts for as little as $50) * 3D printers, including micrometer-scale * etc. This is all hardware being worked on, as opposed to just studies and computer simulations about what is theoretically possible. The "billions lost every day" is bogus, because: * Most of that NPV comes from aspects of Drexler's vision where difficulty of design is quite unclear (by orders of magnitude), eg cell repair machines and self-replicating machines. * Much of the NPV comes from solving problems that might be solved better or sooner some other way. Eg molecular electronics instead of nanomechanical computing, STM-programmable self-replicating zeolites and micro-3D printers instead of self-replicating nanorobots, etc. As set of breakthrough theoretical designs showing what is possible, Drexler's vision is unmatched. As a practical area for today's business investment, it has some problems, especially the lack of hardware experience. As a nanopork barrel, it could kill some of these other ideas, which might not only work better and sooner for some tasks, but also give us the tools and knowledge (extensive experience working on the atomic scale, molecular simulation, rapid robotic control, etc.) needed to develop full-fledged Drexler nanotech. Here are a few businesses that might profit from investment in things reasonably close to Drexler-style nanotech, on a small scale in the near future: * For cryonics companies, nanotechnology plays a major role in marketing efforts, and (when they get larger and have advertising budget to spend) it would make sense for them to fund the most advanced kind of theoretical applied science research, especially cell repair machines designed to repair freezing damage. * Computer companies: stuff related to nanoelectronics, STM alignment, STM-array lithography, disk drives, precisely sized diamond film and crystal growth, etc. * Chemical companies: molecular simulation, especially related to the design of catalysts. Free floating nanocrystal catalysts, instigating "semi-eutactic" chemical reactions but on a massively parallel scale (10^26+ reactions/second). * Biotech companies: advanced versions of in-vivo cell-culture and drug delivery mechanisms, advanced micromechanical pumps for artificial organs, etc. Precise nanocrystal chromatography. Nick szabo szabo@techbook.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 18:45:20 -0500 From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: Preliminary to "sci.space update" Hi. Phil here, with a preliminary article that was posted to sci.space that will be a prelude to my "sci.space update" feature that I will start to write for extropians. Please note, Carol and all you other people debating QM, conciousness, and the Anthropic Principle: if this stuff pans out, there goes the Strong Anthropic Principle. Begin included article: Hello space fans, Does anyone from NASA or anywhere else have any further details on the story that follows: let me know please........... BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) -- A search for aliens in outer space has detected 164 mysterious radio signals that must be studied to learn if they come from natural causes or from E.T. trying to phone Earth, scientists said Tuesday. "At this point, we have no concrete evidence for signals from intelligent aliens. We have some possibilities we're going to investigate further," said Stuart Bowyer, head of the search and an astronomer at the University of California, Berkeley. Detection of the 164 unexplained radio signals since the latest, most sophisticated phase of the $400,000 search started 14 months ago was announced during the American Astronomical Society's annual meeting. "If one of these candidate signals is really a signal from an extraterrestrial civilization, it's likely we will be able to confirm it within a year," said researcher Dan Werthimer. "But it's very unlikely that any of these candidates are really from extraterrestrials. It's much more likely that they are human-made interference or natural noise sources." Since the 1960s, dozens of searches have been conducted for radio signals leaking into space from broadcasts or radar used by any advanced societies that might exist on distant worlds. Bowyer and Werthimer said the UC-Berkeley search, which uses a 1,000-foot-wide radio telescope antenna dish in Puerto Rico, is more powerful and sensitive than any other, analyzing 30 trillion signals in the last 14 months alone. A $100 million, 10-year search by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration eventually will be more powerful once it is running full time and with more advanced equipment. That search started Columbus Day, using antennas in Puerto Rico and California. Several other searches for radio signals from intelligent alien societies also have detected radio signals that couldn't immediately be explained. But all of them either were never heard again or were found to be caused by natural or human sources. Werthimer said some of the yet-unexplained signals have come from the same locations in the sky a month or more after they were first detected. "Our most interesting candidates are signals that are still there when the telescope comes back to a particular spot," he said. That finding is "very interesting" because a radio signal that appears fixed over time "has to be from beyond our solar system," although it could be created naturally, said Edward Olsen, a scientist working on NASA's search at Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. But Werthimer said some such signals may come from within the solar system, generated by two sources that appear in the same part of the sky. -- John Galt - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Galt@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight -- +-----------------------+"Somewhere in the back of her mind, she had always |Phil Fraering |had a vision of the Slowness as a stifling darkness |pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu |lit at best by torches, the domain of cretins and +-----------------------+mechanical calculators." - Vernor Vinge, _A Fire Upon the Deep_ ------------------------------ End of Extropians Digest V93 Issue #0319 ****************************************