From extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Mon Apr 26 00:48:10 1993 Return-Path: Received: from usc.edu by chaph.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.0) id AA01727; Mon, 26 Apr 93 00:48:07 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: from churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu) by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA08111; Mon, 26 Apr 93 00:48:04 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: by churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (5.65/4.0) id ; Mon, 26 Apr 93 03:41:45 -0400 Message-Id: <9304260741.AA00456@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: ExI-Daily@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 03:41:27 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <9304260741.AA00449@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu> X-Original-To: Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu From: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Subject: Extropians Digest V93 #0219 X-Extropian-Date: Remailed on April 26, 373 P.N.O. [07:41:44 UTC] Reply-To: Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Status: OR Extropians Digest Mon, 26 Apr 93 Volume 93 : Issue 0219 Today's Topics: BOOKS: David's Sling out of print [1 msgs] CYRPTO Selling Privacy in the back of High Times Magzine [2 msgs] EPIST: Why do formal systems work? [1 msgs] EXTROPY 5th Birthday Party Extropaganza: DATE [1 msgs] Extropy magizine [1 msgs] GROWTH RATE RANGES [1 msgs] GS: Institute of General Semantics, + Objectivism [1 msgs] In the new age section. [2 msgs] Info on Mykotronx [1 msgs] Jensen's Q? No! Spearman's g. [1 msgs] Meta: Verdict Metzger vs. Reynard [1 msgs] PPL/BOOK: Men Are Not Cost Effective [2 msgs] Questions [1 msgs] Speed of Light Limitation [6 msgs] Undeliverable Mail [1 msgs] alt.extropians: proposed FAQ outline [2 msgs] dilemma [2 msgs] divergence [1 msgs] inequalities [1 msgs] pure thought [1 msgs] the good news from Waco [1 msgs] Administrivia: This is the digested version of the Extropian mailing list. Please remember that this list is private; messages must not be forwarded without their author's permission. To send mail to the list/digest, address your posts to: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu To send add/drop requests for this digest, address your post to: exi-daily-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu To make a formal complaint or an administrative request, address your posts to: extropians-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu If your mail reader is operating correctly, replies to this message will be automatically addressed to the entire list [extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu] - please avoid long quotes! The Extropian mailing list is brought to you by the Extropy Institute, through hardware, generously provided, by the Free Software Foundation - neither is responsible for its content. Forward, Onward, Outward - Harry Shapiro (habs) List Administrator. Approximate Size: 50300 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Apr 1993 11:16:59 -0500 (EST) From: KMOSTA01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU Subject: dilemma Anton, if I understand correctly, you are a delegate, with a fiduciary duty to those who nominated you. This is an important factor to consider, I think. Krzys' ------------------------------ Date: 24 Apr 1993 11:28:34 -0500 (EST) From: KMOSTA01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU Subject: PPL/BOOK: Men Are Not Cost Effective Phil Fraering comments about the influence of the education system on the U.S. crime rate etc. Just a comment -- I am an educator in a city with about 30% black population, at a university which has very high enrollment of black students. I work in a university program helping freshmen "at risk" (the only nonliberal in the program). If my experience is in any way indicative of the national situation, I would say that a l l public education system students are trapped, and only those whose families teach them something else about life have a chance. The degree to which the public education system is collectivist is u n b e l i e v a b l e. One of the things I consider of utmost importance is the attitude towards the scientific method, and the achievements of science. It seems to me that none of this is present in the public education system, while I recall some traces of it in the public education I received under communism. I mean -- Isaac Newton as a hero, Galileo as a hero, Madame Curie as a shero (heroine, heroess??). Krzys' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 10:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: cbmvax!snark.thyrsus.com!esr@uunet.UU.NET (Eric S. Raymond) Subject: GS: Institute of General Semantics, + Objectivism > An additional thought: Ever since learning of Objectivism, with its > Aristotelian orientation and its power of moral and political application, > I've been wondering if it 'is' at all possible to update it with the > scientific non-Aristotelian formulations of GS. If that synthesis can > be accomplished, we'll have one hell of a 'conceptual' framework! I've thought about this one a lot. My take (for reasons I've discussed in previous postings) is that a GS/Objectivist synthesis would have to entirely scrap Randian epistemology, but could save most of the moral philosophy. -- Eric S. Raymond ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 93 14:26:12 EST From: mike@highlite.gotham.COM (Mike Wiik) Subject: the good news from Waco > Maybe it's wishful thinking, but all week I've seen a touch of reluctance on > the part of the San Francisco newspapers to swallow Big Brother's line > uncritically. Here in D.C., the _Washington Times_ headlines (Apr 22) "FBI used chemical banned for war". Some quotes: "It would have panicked the children. Their eyes would have involuntarily shut. Their skin would have been burning. They would have been gasping for air and coughing wildly. ... Eventually, they would have been overcome with vomiting in a final hell. It would not have been pretty. ... It can't be used militarily on Iraqi soldiers, but apparently it's OK against 6-year olds in this country." Benjamin C Garett, executive director of Chemical and Biological Arms Control Institute The report goes on to say that human rights groups have issued reports alleging misuse of CS (O-chlorobenzalmalononitrile, not a gas but a fine powder) has caused 80 deaths worldwide, and that Amnesty International reported previously that "[CS is] particularly dangerous when used in massive quantities in heavily built-up and populated areas...or when launched directly into homes or other buildings." Readers should note that the Washington Times is considered lightyears to the right of the Washington Post. > Anton Sherwood dasher@well.sf.ca.us > +1 415 267 0685 1800 Market St #207, San Francisco 94102 USA > "Don't forget, your mind only *simulates* logic." -- Glen C. Perkins | o==== . : ... : : . |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203 --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : | mike@highlite.gotham.com | ... : : |----------------------------------------------- mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs | Plan Globally Gas & Burn Locally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 13:16:45 -0700 From: D Anton Sherwood Subject: pure thought Speaking of how hard it is to be a pure mathematician -- this from Jane Jacobs' book CITIES AND THE WEALTH OF NATIONS: An emeritus professor of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cyril Stanley Smith, points out that historically, necessity has not been the mother of invention; rather, necessity opportunistically picks up invention and improves improvements on it and new uses for it, but the roots of invention are to be found elsewhere, in motives like curiosity and especially, Smith noted, "esthetic curiosity." Metallurgy itself, he reminds us, began with hammering copper into necklace beads and other ornaments "long before `useful' knives and weapons" were made of copper or bronze. Alloying and heat treatment of metals started in jewelry making and sculpture, as did casting in complicated molds. Pigments (which, incidentally, were the first known uses of iron ore), porcelain and many other ceramics, glass and the practice of welding all started with luxury or decorative goods. Possibly even wheels were at first frivolities; the most ancient known to us are parts of toys. Hydraulics and many mechanical ingenuities and tricks were first developed for toys or other amusements. The lathe was being used to make snuffboxes "a century before heavy industry used it." Malleable cast iron was developed as a cheap substitute for showy wrought-iron gates. "The chemical industry grew from the need for quantities of mordants, bleaches, and alkalie for use in the finer textiles and glass." Blocks for reproducing pictures predated blocks of movable type for printing. Electroplating was first used to give dazzle to statuettes made of base metals, and sparkle to tableware of people who wouldn't afford sterling. "Rockets for fun came before their military use or space travel," and, one might add, before they propelled communications satellites into space. The first successful railroad in the world was an amusement ride in London. Many of us can remember when plastics were used for little except toys and kitchen gadgets, and for piano keys as a lower-cost replacement for ivory. Tennis rackets, golf clubs and fishing rods afforded the first uses of strong, lightweight composites of plastics reinforced with fibers of glass, boron and carbon; now those composites are starting to replace metals in some construction products, some types of springs, pipelines, and aircraft and automobile body parts. Computer games preceded personal computers for workaday use. For years before artificial voices were being incorporated into computerized work tools to call out the temperatures of equipment or to sound explanatory warnings, they were being used in computerized toys and gimmickry for children (e.g., "Speak & Spell") and were being prematurely written off by "serious" developers and users of computers as cute but useless. In my own city today I notice that solar heating is largely a passion of hobbyists, as is drip irrigation, which conserves labor, fertilizer, water and space in home vegetable growing. "All big things grow from little things," Smith comments, with this cautionary addition, "but new little things are destroyed by their environments unless they are cherished for reasons more like esthetic appreciation than practical utility." (Professor Smith's remarks are from "Aesthetic Curiosity--The Root of Invention," New York Times, August 24, 1975. An excellent statement regarding the unexpectedness of invention and discovery and the relationship of surprise to economic development and resource use is "A Historical Approach to Future Economic Growth," by Glenn Hueckel, Science, March 14, 1975.) *\\* Anton Ubi scriptum? In other news: alt.extropians has appeared here, but with zero traffic, not even the piece from Tim that someone sighted. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 16:50:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Shapiro Subject: Meta: Verdict Metzger vs. Reynard Mr. Reynard has, of his own accord, asked to be deleted from the list. I have complied with his request. Since he is no longer on the list he has has placed himself outside my jurisdiction I have not fully reviewed the evidence in this case but given Mr. Reynard's departure their is little need for that accept that he may at some point decide to come back. To make things easy, I rule that Mr. Reynard is banned from this list for a period of 6 months. This ruling is administrative in nature and is not supported or un-supported by the evidence presented by Mr. Metzger. -- Harry Shapiro habs@panix.com List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 17:38:08 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: Speed of Light Limitation X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission As this is off list topics, I am replying in private mail. Mark Read Pickens says: > > Can someone tell me the origin of the idea that the speed of light is the > limit to motion in the universe? I realize mass is supposed to increase > with velocity, theoretically reaching infinity at light-speed. Since this > would be impossible, said mass is necessarily restricted to sub-light > speeds. > > Why was this assumption made and what kind of research substantiates it? > > Mark Read Pickens autarch@well.sf.ca.us ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 15:05:07 -0700 From: D Anton Sherwood Subject: inequalities Krzys: > And actuaries can't come up with a good explanation why women live longer > (ever since childbirth stop being deadly). On the other hand, women have > longer life expectancy even at age 65, when men do hardly any crime any > more. > So ... how come? Even at 65, hubby is more likely to do carpentry, I guess. I heard once that a study of natural deaths (i.e. excluding violence and accidents), among people who had never smoked, found no sex difference. FWIW. - - - Various kinds of inequalities correct themselves in a free market, or so we claim; the classic example being wage inequality by color. Can anyone suggest a mechanism by which the law-and-order inequality, discussed by Romana and others on Monday, might be self-correcting? *\\* Anton Ubi scriptum? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 15:19:21 -0700 From: Mark Read Pickens Subject: Speed of Light Limitation > Neither of these assumptions are unreasonable. If postulate #1 > didn't hold, you could perform an experiment on a train which would > yield different results if performed 'stationary'. > As to why things like gravity waves or neutrinos couldn't travel > faster than light or why light travels at the "ultimate speed" and not > a little slower, I'm not sure right now, but it's probably related to > Ray Cromwell What kind of experiments could be performed on that train? How would they prove that mass increases with velocity, since the instruments measuring the increase are subject to the same phenomenon? My understanding is that photons have a "rest mass" of zero. Zero multiplied by any finite number is zero, whereas multiplying zero by infinity (the theoretical increase at the speed of light) yields a finite number. Since mass cannot exist at either zero or infinite levels, "zero rest mass" particles must exist only at lightspeed. Since nutrinos have mass, super-lightspeed would seem to be ruled out. About thirty years ago a team led by G. Harry Stine performed a series of experiments designed to determine the speed of (presumably massless) gravity waves. The conclusion was that gravity is "at least thirty thousand times faster than light." Mark Read Pickens autarch@well.sf.ca.us ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 18:24:08 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: EPIST: Why do formal systems work? X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Eric S. Raymond says: > > I was under the impression that the difference in accuracy between > > the two systems was so small that it was at the limits of detection by > > the technology available at the time. If Kepler had not been working > > with Tycho Brahe (who had the best equipment and staff in the world), > > he never would have noticed the discrepency between his data and the > > theory. > > Correct, as any good book on the history of astronomy will tell you. The > predictive power of the Ptolemaic system was excellent. The main advantage o f > the Copernican system was that it drastically simplified the computation of > ephemerides. >From what I understand, this isn't strictly speaking correct, either. Bahe's data did not support the then-current Ptolomeic models. The difference between the data and the Ptolemeic system was significant. Not huge -- but significant -- and the data did correspond more closely with Kepler's (not strictly speaking Copernicus') model. I'll point out, by the way, that even Kepler's model and Newton's refinement of it didn't quite explain the motion of Mercury -- it took Relativity to do that. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 18:29:31 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: dilemma X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission KMOSTA01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu says: > > Anton, if I understand correctly, you are a delegate, with a fiduciary duty > to those who nominated you. This is an important factor to consider, I think. The nature of deliberative assemblies, in the Parliamentary law, is that the individual delegate must be free to vote his conscience based on the debate and discussion that occurs at the assembly. He should take in to account the desires of his constituency, but he cannot be held accountable to them except by failure to re-elect him in the future. An example of the "individual" nature of delegatehood is the rule in the Parliamentary law against proxy voting -- you cannot give someone else your vote -- you must yourself participate in the assembly and hear the arguments on both sides in order to vote. Whether you agree with this or not, that is, more or less, what the tradition has been. Perry Metzger ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 18:53:19 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: Speed of Light Limitation X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mark Read Pickens says: > > > Neither of these assumptions are unreasonable. If postulate #1 > > didn't hold, you could perform an experiment on a train which would > > yield different results if performed 'stationary'. > > > As to why things like gravity waves or neutrinos couldn't travel > > faster than light or why light travels at the "ultimate speed" and not > > a little slower, I'm not sure right now, but it's probably related to > > > Ray Cromwell > > What kind of experiments could be performed on that train? How would they > prove that mass increases with velocity, since the instruments measuring the > increase are subject to the same phenomenon? No one has ever conducted experiments to my knowledge that directly measure the mass increase caused by acceleration. However, time dialation has been directly observed using atomic clocks, and observing particle decay in accelerators. The fixed nature of the speed of light has been directly observed using the Michaelson-Morely (sp?) apparatus. The gravitational distortion of light has been directly observed in solar eclipses. Mass-energy equivalence has been directly demonstrated -- indeed, particle accelerators use that phenomenon to generate new particles. > My understanding is that photons have a "rest mass" of zero. Well, thats sort of a meaningless notion. Its more accurate to say that photons are massless. > Zero > multiplied by any finite number is zero, whereas multiplying zero by > infinity (the theoretical increase at the speed of light) yields a finite > number. Er, no. Sorry. Wrong. Math gets very tricky when you start using terms like "infinite" and the like. The way to get a handle on such things is by limit theory. Now, if you take the limit of the mass of a zero-mass thing accelerated to the speed of light, you end up with zero. > Since nutrinos have > mass, super-lightspeed would seem to be ruled out. I'm not sure that this has been conclusively established either way. > About thirty years ago a team led by G. Harry Stine performed a series of > experiments designed to determine the speed of (presumably massless) gravity > waves. The conclusion was that gravity is "at least thirty thousand times > faster than light." Huh? To my knowledge, no gravity waves have yet been detected. I've also never heard of Mr. Stine, or is it Dr. Stine, and I suspect that I would have. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 20:17:07 -0500 From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: Speed of Light Limitation Here's my two cents: 1) Please go read a good book on physics and relativity. Feynmann's lectures would be a good place. 2) Neutrino mass has been reported but not verified. A lot of the "cutting edge" stuff in physics are actually not very often repeatable experiments and are therefore better described as "bleeding edge." Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 93 22:35:48 PDT From: Eli Brandt Subject: Speed of Light Limitation > What kind of experiments could be performed on that train? How would they > prove that mass increases with velocity, since the instruments measuring the > increase are subject to the same phenomenon? (You don't even need to say anything about "subject to the same phenomenon"; relativity itself says that people on the train won't find anything) "Mass" doesn't really increase. You can formulate things such that inertial mass increases, but gravitational mass doesn't change. Rather than breaking the rather nice (apparent) equality between the two, you can alternatively leave mass alone and define a relativistic momentum. Personally, I like this approach. As to measuring this effect, that's pretty easy. Look at a relativistic particle in an accelerator, and figure out how many times c Newtonian mechanics wants it to be going. Then note that it's actually doing nothing of the sort. > About thirty years ago a team led by G. Harry Stine performed a series of > experiments designed to determine the speed of (presumably massless) gravity > waves. The conclusion was that gravity is "at least thirty thousand times > faster than light." This sounds markedly bogus. People are still trying to *detect* gravity waves. > Mark Read Pickens autarch@well.sf.ca.us Eli ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 10:41:54 EDT From: dszasz@aol.com Subject: Extropy magizine I read about your magizine yesterday in the new issue of "WIRED" Magizine. I would like to know where I can find a copy of it to examine, could you send me a sample? David Szasz 1400-C Stapler Pl. Wilmington, DE 19806-2530 -Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 12:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Subject: Jensen's Q? No! Spearman's g. In the thread on psychometrics and IQ a while back, I made a factual error. The statistic which correlates with about 50% of variance in multi-factor intelligence tests, but for which there is as yet no causal model, is not "Jensen's Q" but "Spearman's g". Please re-adjust your mind-sets accordingly. :-) -- >>eric>> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 10:05:42 PDT From: hal@alumni.cco.caltech.edu (Hal Finney) Subject: Speed of Light Limitation I know this topic isn't that relevant to extropianism, but it can still be fun. The train experiments aren't to measure mass. Instead, they confirm that the speed of light is always c, no matter what the motion of the train and the light source. Now, this is a very surprising result. How could someone outside the train and someone moving with the train both measure the speed of the _same_ light to be 186000 miles per second? No other speeds behave like this. Relativity was a theoretical exploration of this amazing and counter- intuitive experimental result. If you take it as given and go with it, all of the surprising results of special relativity come out - disagreement about simultaneity, time dilation, mass increase, etc. These aren't measured directly by the train observer; rather, they are deductions, they follow logically from the observation of the constancy of the speed of light. Since then, many of these deductions have been confirmed, lending credibility to the chain of logic that produced them. Because of the accuracy of the confirmations, special relativity is probably one of the best established physical theories around. Hal ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 13:10:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Edward J OConnell Subject: CYRPTO Selling Privacy in the back of High Times Magzine SELLING 'OFF THE SHELF' PRIVACY TO THOSE THAT WOULD PAY FOR IT... I've been thinking about this PGP thing. Playing with it has been a lot of fun, (The ultimate secret decoder ring!) and has made me wonder, who *needs* this kind of security that doesn't have it already? Who would pay for it? Who wouldn't care too much about the legalities? Mid to large scale drug dealers, that's who! (Also, perhaps the kiddie porn people, for whom the mails are dangerous. I know, ick.) So I began to think about selling a hardware/software package, a refined version of the hack described by a couple of Extropians awhile back, that would use PC's with soundblaster boards and highspeed modems to create protected voice communication. (Is anyone doing this already, do you suppose?) Since I'm no programmer, and the hack sounded a little creaky at the moment, I began to think of things *I* could do with off the shelf hardware and software. Ease of use is important--I don't think many drug dealers are going to want to mess around with command line interfaces--So I started playing with the idea of a voicemail/answering machine type thing, using macs with built in microphones, modems, telecom software, etc. Maybe use hypercard to create a single application with a phone book, so that they would just double click on someone's name, and talk into the microphone. Hit a button to end the message, and then hit, SEND. The hypercard stack compresses and encrypts using PGP the voice file, which is decompressed and encrypted automatically at the other end, maybe producing a blinking button with that persons name on it, and the time of the call. The interface design would be fun, actually. Asynchronous, but perhaps useful enough? (With a 1.44 modem and the 6/1 compression rate of my shareware voice recorder, it would take about 2 minutes to modem a minutes worth of message--not too bad, really.) I think it might be interesting to typeset a booklet describing how to do this, and try to sell it in the back of magazines--maybe Rolling Stones and High Times. The booklet might just be pointers to the hardware and software needed, and the few skills the client would have to acquire. You could sell the "ease of use" hypercard stack through the booklet, too. You could wait and see if the thing takes off before actually writing the thing. Of course, the legality of this hinges on the legality of PGP. I'm afraid if you did this and actually started making/selling privacy, the feds would descend, and make PGP officially illegal. Or perhaps I'd find myself audited by the IRS. Or, if you wanted to get really paranoid, dead at 30 of a mysterious heart attack. As long as the only people interested in sending secret messages are a bunch of libertarian computer geeks, I don't think anyone really cares enough to stop it. Give/Sell this power to drug syndicates, and watch the whole thing get shut down fast. Any thoughts? I'm halfway serious about this. Perhaps it could exist in the same sort of quasilegal half-life as bongs, psyloycybin spore logs, and automatic weapon conversion kits--sure, it's illegal to use this stuff I'm selling, but I'm not selling illegality...I'm just selling the stuff! I'm on fire with the entrepeneurial spirit! Help! Somebody throw some cold water on me quick! ;) Jay __________________________________ Albert Einstein--"God does not play dice with the universe." Me--"No, he plays Super-Scratch-Card-Wingo (TM) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 12:21:19 CST From: MAILER AT NEMOMUS <$EMD%NEMOMUS.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu> Subject: Undeliverable Mail The following errors occurred while attempting to send this mail file. Sender is: @Extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu *12.21.17 Sender: Name defined twice within an address *12.21.17 Sender: USERID/ADDRESS defined twice within an address MAIL SENT TO => REBER, DEANNE LYNNE A463000@NEMOMUS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ------------------------------- Received: from BROWNVM.brown.edu by ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with TCP; Sun, 25 Apr 93 12:20:55 CST Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7449; Sun, 25 Apr 93 13:22:14 EDT Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 7673; Sun, 25 Apr 1993 13:22:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 13:21:51 EDT Reply-To: "Baseball (and Lesser Sports) Discussion List" Sender: "Baseball (and Lesser Sports) Discussion List" Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X From: "Rodger A. Payne" Subject: Questions X-To: Bitnet Baseball League and Sports Discussion To: Multiple recipients of list STATLG-L Assistant Professor of Political Science Phone: (502) 588-6831 Here are a couple of points to ponder: 1. Why did Phil Garner leave Jaime Navarro on the mound the other day to be pummeled for 9 ERs? Steve? Don? 2. Why are the Rangers keeping Benji Gil on their bench, when he should be playing every day in Tulsa or Oklahoma City? 3. Jim Abbott. I watched most of his start Friday night, and he was getting Seattle to hit ground balls to the left side of the IF. However, Boggs made one error, he fell down on another ball that lots of 3Bs would have had, and he generally didn't look great chasing all those grounders. And the SS was Randy Velarde, utility man. Sure, he's got 3 HRs, but when Abbott is pitching isn't the IF defense a higher priority? Gotta run, but I've been thinking about these issues. Rodger rapayn01@ulkyvm "Baseball, he determined, would be an excellent hobby. 'No sense a man's working his fool head off'...it gave outlet for the homicidal and side-taking instincts which Babbitt called 'patriotism' and 'love of sport.'" Sinclair Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 18:38:50 -0400 (EDT) From: bhaworth@acpub.duke.edu (W. Blair Haworth Jr.) Subject: PPL/BOOK: Men Are Not Cost Effective Krzys' writes: > The degree to which > the public education system is collectivist is u n b e l i e v a b l e. A quote for your delectation: "Is it not ironical that in a planned society of controlled workers given compulsory assignments, where religious expression is suppressed, the press controlled, and all media of communication censored, where a puppet government is encouraged but denied any real authority, where great attention is given to efficiency and character reports, and attendance at cultural assemblies is mandatory, where it is avowed that all will be administered to each according to his needs and performance required from each according to his abilities, and where those who flee are tracked down, returned, and punished for trying to escape - in short in the milieu of the typical large Amwrican secondary school - we attempt to teach 'the democratic system'?" --Royce Van Norman, "School Administration:Thoughts on Organization and Purpose", _Phi Delta Kappan_ 47(1966):315-16. Quoted in Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner, _The Soft Revolution_ (NY: Delta, 1971), p.43. Under the rubric, oddly enough, of: "If you have to deal with some real right-wingers, lay this one on 'em." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 18:17:26 -0500 From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: CYRPTO Selling Privacy in the back of High Times Magzine Jay asks who might need some sort of privacy setup like he describes. I would say: lots of people in Hong Kong, the PRC, and possibly the former Yugoslavia and the CIS... There's a huge, desperate market. It might even be worth doing for free for them.... especially since that might keep the feds off your back about using PGP in the scheme... pgf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 16:59:04 MDT From: sneal@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Sneal) Subject: BOOKS: David's Sling out of print According to my local book purveyor, "David's Sling" by Marc Stiegler is no longer in print. I've been wanting to read it since I saw the review in Extropy #8; does anyone know where I can dig up a copy, or can anyone get one for me (assuming suitable monetary arrangements, of course)? Please reply in email, unless your reply takes the form of an entertaining flame about the amount of shelf space occupied by aftermarket Star Trek novels and how this is inextricably linked to the decline of SAT scores. -- Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Coming soon to bookstores everywhere: "Atlas Shrugged: The Foto-Novel." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 18:41:51 MDT From: hammar@cs.unm.edu Subject: In the new age section. Recently, someone asked why "Extropy" is in the new age section of his magazine store. I recently found the book _Matricies and Transformations_ in the new age section of my favorite bookstore. New age covers a _lot_ of territory. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 21:04:18 PDT From: more@chaph.usc.edu (Max More) Subject: EXTROPY 5th Birthday Party Extropaganza: DATE ANNOUNCEMENT ANNOUNCEMENT ANNOUNCEMENT ANNOUNCEMENT EXTROPY 5th Birthday Party Extropaganza More details will be posted nearer the time, and printed in EXTROPY and EXPONENT, but here is the esential information so you can plan your summer: DATE: Saturday August 28 1993, from 2.0pm PLACE: The home of Mark Desilets, long-time list member: 580 Burnside Bend, Boulder Creek, CA 95006. ACTIVITIES: Possible videotaping of party-goers, hot tub (minimal clothing required), music, talk, and whatever else spontaneously evolves from the fertile memetic soup of the Extropian mind! BRING: Something to drink, some food so as not to bankrupt the host, toys of transhuman interest. Be there, or be mehum! Max More more@usc.edu President Extropy Institute (ExI) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 21:25:11 PDT From: hkhenson@cup.portal.com Subject: GROWTH RATE RANGES Some time ago Robin Hanson asked me for a source on the growth of life insurance--because that is about the closest historical parallel we have to cryonics. In cleaning up my office today I finally found the reference, at least a copy of one page of the book *Life Insurance In America.* (sorry, no author or date of publication, but I believe it was about 1970.) I am posting to the group because it gives a feel for the range of exponential growth which has been seen in recent historical times. Page 7 has a graph on semi-log paper of a number of economic aspects of the period from 1840 to 1950. Population growth was positively anemic by comparison to outstanding insurance policy values which grew by a factor of 32 over a 20 year period or one doubling every 4 years. This, in turn looked weak compared to the growth of automobile registrations--which went up by a factor of 32 over about 10 years, or a doubling every *2* years. Alcor's growth (I don't have the numbers for the other cryonic organizations) is right between these at one doubling ever three years. Oddly enough, this is about the same rate at which computers are improving on a constant dollar basis. Perhaps there is some deep connection. :) Keith Henson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 21:22:55 -0700 From: D Anton Sherwood Subject: divergence A posthuman joke. Not long after the Far Edge Party, posthumans will populate the galaxy in a billion dissimilar forms. Their languages will have diverged, but probably most of them will speak variations (or encodings) of English, Spanish, Cantonese and a few others. Pre-Singularity records will be a vanishing fraction of the galactic database, lost among hoaxes and forgeries. Posthuman linguists will analyze the new languages in an effort to determine whether all life has a common origin. The existence of Chinese (and other non-IE languages) will be seen by many as evidence to the contrary. *\\* Anton Ubi scriptum? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 21:53:14 PDT From: Pandit Singh Subject: alt.extropians: proposed FAQ outline Sounds good ! Go ahead and post it... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 22:15:53 PDT From: Pandit Singh Subject: In the new age section. > > > Recently, someone asked why "Extropy" is in the new age section of > his magazine store. > I recently found the book _Matricies and Transformations_ in the new > age section of my favorite bookstore. New age covers a _lot_ of > territory. > > I think it is because there are parallels between some themes in extropian territory and those of ancient yogis. Thanks for all the support with alt.extropians. It seems to have propagated fine. I encourage all to use it. pandit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 22:17:59 PDT From: Pandit Singh Subject: Info on Mykotronx > > The San Francisco Chronicle says it's a "little-known company in Torrance, CA"; Note that Torrance is right next door to Redondo Beach, where TRW has a large facility. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 0:06:00 PDT From: Eli Brandt Subject: alt.extropians: proposed FAQ outline Interested parties should note that Pandit Singh just posted a blurb about alt.extropians to alt.config. Those who get alt should probably read it. Eli ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu ------------------------------ End of Extropians Digest V93 Issue #0219 ****************************************