From: Bryan Moss (bryan.moss@dial.pipex.com)
Date: Wed Dec 22 1999 - 11:44:57 MST
Robert J. Bradbury wrote:
> Bryan, you're extrapolating what I say without "due
> process". I didn't say that *I* didn't want to be raped.
> On odd days if I get out of the "far side" of the bed, I
> might be in an existentialist/experientialist mood
> sufficiently that I might relish the prospect. Unlike
> many individuals I do realize that the choice of how you
> experience things is entirely self-generated. I put rape
> in a category slightly below triple-black-diamond ski
> slopes in that under most circumstances it is probably
> survivable. Now, if you had said that to be what you want
> to be, you want to "torture, and eventually kill me", then
> I would strongly object.
The choice of crime is arbitrary; I used the example of rape
because it doesn't necessarily imply physical harm. In the
past on this list we have discussed rape in terms of an
invasion of another persons metal / emotional state.
> My statements were however intended to shelter those
> individuals who have less separation between their
> experience and who they perceive themselves to be. I view
> raping an average individual in the category with beating
> children. The activities are unproductive and
> unextropian. It would seem that common result of these
> circumstances would be to force an individual into viewing
> society as taking advantage of oneself, in which case they
> will probably be willing to return little to society.
Thank you Robert. This is exactly what I was looking for,
a rationalisation of why you consider a rapist and a 'good
citizen' to be entirely different "dimensions".
> Individuals who take away their productivity or creativity
> from society, in effect, hurt us all. Can you make an
> argument that hurting us all is justified by your personal
> benefit in raping individuals?
If the value is "be what you want to be except when it stops
others from being what they want to be" then I have already
given an example where your hurt is an infringement of my
freedom to hurt. The problem here is that the value in
question defines right from wrong. What you suggest is an
entirely different value, "be a productive part of society".
BM
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