From: CurtAdams@aol.com
Date: Sat Nov 27 1999 - 11:42:46 MST
In a message dated 11/27/99 8:21:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
daugh@home.msen.com writes:
> James Daugherty, <daugh@home.msen.com>, writes:
> James Sez: According to Dr. Adkins, ketosis is the normal way the
> body utilizes fat when during hard times. Where is the data that
> ketosis is dangerous?
a) ketosis is what actually kills diabetics, most of the time
b) no organism uses ketosis as its normal state if it doesn't have to; all
*could*, but none do.
c) The body manifestly lacks the regulation of ketones it displays for glucose
Glucose is kept within narrow limits and conserved in the body; but ketones
are neither properly regulated nor conserved.
d) A prior version of Atkins, called the "meat diet" was canned in the 30's
due
to a high rate of heart disease.
e) Byproduct of the ketotic cycles, including acetone, are directly toxic
Now none of this proves that ketosis, in toto, is detrimental to modern
humans.
Weight loss and lowered glucose are good things. A good scientist who
respected the health of his followers would accordingly perform animal tests
to determine the long-term effects of ketosis. Atkins doesn't.
> James Sez: I have been in ketosis for over a month now. Never nauseous.
> I do smell different in both mouth and sweat....mate thinks it is
different, but
> not worse. I lift weights for exercise and note that the number of reps I
can
> do at various weight levels has declined a little. I would think this i
because
> I have less reserve energy stored in the muscles eventhough I take
creatine.
> The max weight I can lift has not declined.
That's better than usual; certainly far better than some of my parent's
friends
who were afraid to drive. These things do vary.
> However, I feel much more
> energetic now that the hi-sugar / low sugar cycle is eliminated-Adkins
> quotes studies that show all the body's tissues including the brain and
> major organs like the heart can utilize ketones as easily as
> glucose for energy, contrary to knee jerk opinion in the Establishment. In
> fact, some studies showed that some tissues prefer ketones!
That's in the textbooks, actually. So Atkins is still posing as "persecuted"
when
his ideas get wide acceptance *provided there is data*. Interesting. Sounds
like
he's trying to sucker in conspiracy theorists.
> James Sez: Dr. Adkins recommends a moderate low carbohydrate diet
> after your target weight is obtained. One would be in ketosis only part of
> the time on the long term diet.
Researchers have tried this technique in hospitals fat loss clinics. People
coming off the diet typically experience extreme carbohydrate cravings.
> Adkins thinks you cannot be healthly unless in
> ketosis at least part of the time. Only in ketosis can body clean-out
> excess cholesterol, etc. from arteries! If you have all the energy you
> need from a carbs all the time, the body cannot deal with whatever
> fat is left in the diet to deposit God Knows Where!??
Atkins can't possibly be that ignorant. The liver can process fat to other
things and fat cells take it up avidly. Plaque regression happens just fine
w/o
ketosis (c.f. work on Pritikin and Ornish diets)
>No fat mobilization in "GLUCOSIS" according to Adkins...a dangerous
situation???
So dangerous every metazoan species on earth that can use it uses it ...
> James Sez Further: Where is the data proving the body is not adapted
> for ketosis? Didn't humans probably evolve with the ability to store
> and then use fat? I would think that in many climates, folks would
> eat lots of carbs during the summer, get fat, and then live partially
> off stored fat during the "hard winter" months. I would suspect that
> primitives living in a "hard climate" purposely got fat whenever possible.
And, interestingly, Eskimos, who eat a ketosis-inducing diet, are more
resistant to ketosis! Apparently the body dodges ketosis when it can.
You are correct that occaisional ketosis is normal for people and we must
be able to tolerate short periods of it fairly well. They might still be bad
for
us. Or good. Dr. Atkins apparently doesn't want us to know.
>>Research on the long-term
>> safety of ketotic diets is zilch, which I consider inexcusable given
>> than Dr. Atkins has been pushing this diet for 25 years. Not even a
>> rodent study! Dr. Atkins' diet may be a good thing, but he is a quack.
> James Sez: Is this Dr. Adkin's fault or the fault of Establishment science
> that rejects the diet without any evidence?
His fault. Nobody stopped him from doing the experiments.
> Quack? That is a pretty
> extreme statement. Are rodents evolved to eat meat? Studies are
> expensive.
Humans are valuable. Is the health of millions of people worth less than
$50,000 for a rodent study? An omnivore like a pig would indeed be a better
model, although rodents will eat meat.
(positive personal experiences re hunger snipped)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 15:05:52 MST