TO: Joe Dees - Mu-shin

From: Robert Owen (rowen@technologist.com)
Date: Sat Sep 25 1999 - 22:45:54 MDT


J. The Zen Doctrine of No-Mind asserts that the belief that
   one possesses a self is a delusion; that the self is, in
   reality, nothing.

B. Let me rephrase this for the sake of illustration: No-Mind
   asserts that the dreamer is the dream, the dancer is the
   dance, the hearer is the sound, the perceiver is the
   perception.

   There is nothing in the stream of consciousness except a
   fleeting succession of images and feelings; there is that
   which is seen, but no seeing of seeing, there is that
   which is felt, but no feeling of feeling.

   Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum" means simply "there is the
   thought of thinking" then "the thought of a thinker" and
   finally the thought "if thought then thinker" and that is all.
   "Believer" can be directly substituted for "thinker" and
   "belief" for "thought". Thought if and only if thought.

J. However, if one does indeed possess a self, then there
   is no delusion involved in believing that one does.

B.But the Zen position denies the substantiality of any
   temporally self-identical entity within the stream of
   consciousness. There is no dreamer and the dream
   of a dreamer is a dream. What happens to the dreamer
   when awakening is precisely what happens to the lap
   when standing up.

J. On the other hand, if one does not possess a self, then no
   delusion can occur, either, for delusion requires a self in
   order to have a subject to delude - a deludee, if you will.

B. But, once again, although there is no dreamer there is
   still dreaming; dreaming that the dream-state is reality
   requires only the dream just as the dance requires only
   dancing.

J. There must be a believer for a belief to occur, and a
   nonexistent belief cannot be deluded

B There must be a believer for a belief to occur to a believer,
   is tautological, like "Snow is white if and only if snow is
   white."

J. In addition, delusion in the absence of one who is indeed
   deluded makes no sense whatsoever, since such a concept
   cannot meet the sine qua non test.

B. Delusion is a property of consciousness that mistakes its
    reflexivity for a subject-object duality. Delusion is then
    simply a state of the unawareness of consciousness of its
    own "true nature".

J. So, whether or not there is such an entity as a self in
    existence, there can be no delusion, and there is no
    room between the twin horns of this dilemma, since the
    either-or alternatives encompass all the possible situational
    alternatives. Q.E.D.,

B. There is a disintegrated state of consciousness that can
    be called "delusion" or "ignorance", but there is no one
    who is deluded or ignorant. The eye cannot see itself
    seeing because there is nothing to see.

J. The Zen Doctrine of No-Mind, which asserts that such a
   belief is necessarily deluded, when in fact it cannot be,
   must be false. There is a way around this argument.

B. You can continue dualistically thinking that the doctrine
    of No-Mind is false, as long as you continue to think
    dualistically.

J. Have fun, Joe

B. All fun is Zen, Joe, because it makes you laugh!

      One monk said to the other, "The fish has
      flopped out of the net! How will it live?"
      The other said, "When you have gotten
      out of the net, I'll tell you."

Lux et Veritas,

Bob

=======================
Robert M. Owen
Director
The Orion Institute
57 W. Morgan Street
Brevard, NC 28712-3659 USA
=======================



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