From: Elizabeth Childs (echilds@linex.com)
Date: Sun Sep 05 1999 - 22:49:06 MDT
From: Kathryn Aegis <k_aegis@mindspring.com>
>
> I wish that people would explain their reasons for leaving a list TO the
> list, because then change might actually occur. But no, they vent to me
> and then leave. And make no mistake, this is still happening.
I was one of the people who vented to Kathryn about some of the recent
comments about women. (I'm not leaving, though.) I tend to assume that no
one is going to change, so
my recommendation would be that we write up or find an FAQ about how to use
mail filters, covering all the major UNIX and Windows based mail readers,
and auto-post it once a week. We should also consider posting a list of the
meta tags once a week, with an encouragement to use them.
I think it's easy to get the impression when someone posts something
offensive, and almost no one responds, that the whole list agrees with them.
In fact, the rest of the list is either killfiling them or blowing past the
posts to
talk about something more interesting.
My objections to the recent postings were twofold: One, women were being
discussed very negatively as though they were not even present, and two,
there was no scientific support for anything said. Saying "except a few
women" doesn't make it less offensive.
I'm all for people bringing to light real evidence of gender
differentiation, no matter how negative. For example, there's a fair amount
of evidence that mathematical ability is, in fact, sex linked, and this
probably accounts for the disproportionate number of men in mathematics and
some of the hard sciences. But this statement is a conclusion
derived from evidence, open to debate. "Women are irrational" is a slander,
and the
arguments presented for it were along the lines of "I knew all these women,
and they were irrational."
I also thought the sociobiology was getting a bit out of hand. The thread
went from speculating about reproductive incentives (relevant and
interesting) to assuming that those reproductive incentives are followed
completely in the real world by all women (not supported by evidence).
I wouldn't say that there's a lot of sexism in particular on the
Extropian list, compared to all of the other hostility on various subjects.
I've also noticed: outright bashing of religious people, outright bashing
of non-libertarians, outright bashing of libertarians, outright bashing of
Americans, sly implications that blacks are inferior (as opposed to serious
discussion of IQ scores), and ignorance about the third world to the point
of offensiveness.
I wouldn't say that the Extropian list is a particularly rude place. Most
of the people who post are thoughtful and considerate. But it's the nature
of electronic communication. People get into terrible flame wars, challenge
each other like alpha males, and say things they would never say face to
face. I once introduced two friends without knowing that they had been
brutally flaming each other on one of the usenet administration groups. In
person, they got along fine.
Even the Tori Amos newsgroup gets into knock-down, drag out fights.
Until collaborative filtering is available, I think the best solution is
killfiles, and help with killfiles for newbies.
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