From: Robert J. Bradbury (bradbury@www.aeiveos.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 1999 - 14:14:40 MDT
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 mark@unicorn.com wrote:
> So what would be the point of an extropians list and Extropy Institute
> if there's no difference and no division between extropians and other
> transhumanists?
It may be important to frame this from the perspective of cultural
differences. The ExI is currently fairly biased pseudo-"American"
type organization (because the directors at least, with the exception
of Max are culturally "American" (with perhaps wide degrees of freedom).
The World Transhumanist Association is in part a superset of a number
culturally specific organizations. Transhumanism is in *my mind* a
socio-cultural perspective, while Extropian"ism" is more of a
rational-technical perspective (though others may disagree).
The entire concept of "transhumanism" may have inherently cultural
specific components to it. The pictire that a Japanese person
has for a transhumanist I suspect is quite different from that
of a American. The range of transhumanism is very
broad. On the other hand the volume covered by Extropic
ideas "feels" smaller. It may be more rational-technical
related, but its principles encompass all of the transhumanist
"cultures". Perhaps transhumanism includes international
"cultural" logics, while Extropian"ism" is more boolean or fuzzy
logic based.
> Why should all differences just dissolve into some happy,
> fluffy, mushy mess?
I don't think they do, I think they are two sets nested subsets
within each other, something which is impossible by definition.
> If there's a problem it's that extropianism isn't much different
> from general transhumanism anymore, not that it's too different.
I think the emphasis would be that the transhumanist organizations
may end up dealing more with local flavors and adaptations of
transhumanism, cross-cultural issues, etc., while ExI may be more
focued on technical issues (from its very loose affiliation with
the Foresight Institute) and perhaps Art (from its very loose
affiliation with the Transhumanist Art Centre [though Natasha
may correct me on this]). In large part organisations are going
to reflect the connectedness and perspectives of the individuals
that participate in them.
It is my general impression, that the transhumanists are perhaps
saying there are many "right" ways and exploring, while Extropians
such as my self, Greg or Max, may be focused what are the "best"
ways (in technology, law/ethics, politics, philosophy). I'm sure they
and others will correct me if I'm putting words in their mouths.
Where transhumanism seems more about diversity, Extropic thoughts
seem more about optimality. As such there may always be tension
between the poles -- diversity is seldom optimally efficient
but may efficiently be optimally diverse.
All of this is all subjective of course.
Robert
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