From: Terry Donaghe (tdonaghe@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 1999 - 06:10:26 MDT
First off I need to apologize for associating Extropianism with
Libertarianism. Unfortunately it seems most of you feel that
Libertarianism = The Libertarian party. I don't think so, and it was
never my intention to throw a political party into the debate.
However, I would really like someone to discuss the ways in which
Libertarianism the political PHILOSOPHY is different from the Extropian
philosophy. I can't see much difference.
Second, I don't think I care to back down on my attack of Joao's
support for a coercive government which forces children to learn
evolution (or anything for that matter). Joao may well be a great
person, and I have never intended to attack him personally, however I
may be guilty of failing to give him proper respect - I'll apologize
for that as well. BUT I take attacks on liberty and RESPONSIBILITY
very personally. A government which forces ideas, thoughts, mores,
etc. is a government which is trying to destroy individuality by
removing the responsibility of individual thought from it's citizens.
We must each come to the conclusion that rational thought is superior
to blind emotional stumbling.
I can quote from the Principles as well. #5 Open Society - "Supporting
social orders that foster freedom of speech, freedom of action, and
experimentation. Opposing authoritarian social control and favoring the
rule of law and decentralization of power. Preferring bargaining over
battling, and exchange over compulsion. Openness to improvement rather
than a static utopia." "6. Self-Direction — Seeking independent
thinking, individual freedom, personal responsibility, self-direction,
self-esteem, and respect for others."
>From #5 - Down in the body of the text...
"Centralized command of behavior constrains exploration, diversity, and
dissenting opinion. We can pursue extropian goals in numerous types of
open social orders but not in theocracies or authoritarian or
totalitarian systems. Societies with pervasive and coercively enforced
centralized control cannot allow dissent and diversity. "
"We have no use for the technocratic idea of coercive central control
by self-proclaimed experts. No group of experts can understand and
control the endless complexity of an economy and society composed of
other individuals like themselves. Unlike utopians of all stripes,
Extropians do not seek to control the details of people’s live or the
forms and functions of institutions according to a grand over-arching
plan. "
>From #6 - in the body of the text...
"We vigorously resist coercion from those who try to impose their
judgments of the safety and effectiveness of various means of
self-experimentation. Personal responsibility and self-determination
are incompatible with authoritarian centralized control, which stifles
the choices and spontaneous ordering of autonomous persons."
I think Max uses the word coercion (or a form thereof) 11 times in a
bad light in this article. Unless my tiny brain is completely
incapable of understanding what Max is saying, coercion is a VERY bad
thing and something which is not at all compatible with Extropianism.
Again, I'm sorry for jumping all over Joao. That was improper. I'm
sorry for associating the word Libertarianism (which is a naughty word
for some around here) with Extropianism. I'm not sorry, though for
standing up for what I believe in, and I'm not sorry for attacking
coercion. If Robert, or anyone else would like to explain how freedom,
open and dynamic societies and self-determinism is incompatible with
Extropianism, I'm all ears.
===
Terry Donaghe: terry@donaghe.com
http://www.donaghe.com
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." --Samuel Adams
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