From: R. Equalizer Mccall (K965829@atlas.kingston.ac.uk)
Date: Wed Jun 16 1999 - 09:37:26 MDT
Just a short point from a third party.
The UK has a 95% convition rate for murder and as the general
population is unarmed any one seen with a gun is treated like a
dangerous criminal at is quite often ends up being shot dead by
a police sniper, now that is good enouth protection as fair as I`m
concerned.
> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> To: extropians@extropy.com
> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:06:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: Safe Gun-Free Britain (was Re: Guns [was Re: property Rights])
> Reply-to: extropians@extropy.com
> Date sent: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:14:39 -0400
> From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
> Organization: http://lorrey.com http://artlocate.com
> To: extropians@extropy.com
> Subject: Re: Safe Gun-Free Britain (was Re: Guns [was Re: property Rights])
> Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
>
> > "Joe E. Dees" wrote:
> >
> > > > Not really; gun ownership doesn't deter crime if people can't carry those
> > > > guns with them. Crooks may decide not to break into people's houses
> > > > because they might be armed, but that's not really a problem since they
> > > > can just wait until their victims are out on the streets and disarmed by
> > > > law.
> > > >
> > > Murder rates are higher in those US states which have a concealed
> > > carry law, where both citizen and criminal is more likely to be
> > > armed, than they are in the U.K., where both is less likely to be.
> >
> > Yet property crime is higher in the UK, as ar assaults. Not to mention that demographically,
> > the US is far far different from the UK. I'll bet if you compare states with similar
> > demographics to the UK you'll see much more closer comparison.
> >
> When a comparison might augur in your favor, you accentuate the
> similarities; when it might weigh against you, you stress the
> differences, This may be self-serving, but it is hardly truth-serving.
> >
> > > > According to that DoJ report I posted a URL for, in some areas (assault
> > > > and property crimes) it has much higher crime levels than America; this
> > > > is probably one reason why the anti-gunners stick to murder rates. It's
> > > > possible the DoJ are fudging the figures to make America look better, but
> > > > they appear to have gone to some trouble to get accurate statistics by
> > > > looking both at official police reports and victim surveys... and they
> > > > would seem to have a vested interest in making it look worse to get more
> > > > funding.
> > > >
> > > Murder is the irreversible crime; it is the one which forever revokes
> > > one's right to life, liberty, property and pursuit of happiness, as well
> > > as the one to keep and bear arms.
> >
> > Thats right, but killing a criminal is not murder, and I'd much rather it were him and not me,
> > and I'd much rather trust my protection to myself than to.... well since the government is not
> > liable for protecting me, then I have no-one to trust but myself.
> >
> I'd much rather him not have the gun, if I can keep it out of his
> hands; even if I'm armed with a tommygun, one bullet from behind
> will kill me and I'd most likely never see it coming.
> >
> > Here's a question: What do the gun controllers propose to give me in services in exchange for
> > my guns? Will they provide bodyguards? NO? Will they lock up anyone who ever exhibited a hint
> > of deviancy? NO? Will they pay for the prisons they will need to enforce the fascist state
> > they want to impose? NO? Well, then, no deal.
> >
> You can have yours if you're not a violent criminal, a spouse and/or
> child abuser, mentally deficient and/or deranged, or a child. Then,
> society shouldn't need your criminal, insane, abusive or underaged
> permission.
> >
> > definition of fascism:
> > from Encyclopedia.com:
> >
> > "philosophy of government that glorifies the nation-state at the expense
> > of the individual... Fascism generally gains support by promising social
> > justice to discontented elements of the working and middle classes, and
> > social order to powerful financial interests."
> >
> > Start enforcing the laws we already have before you come to me to ask that I give up more
> > freedoms...
> >
> You accuse me of asking for what I have not asked for (unless you
> belong in one of the categories of my list, in which case you are
> not responsible enough to be trusted in the midst of the populace
> with the possession of mass and at-a-distance deadly force, and
> therefore your permission is irrelevant, for you cannot responsibly
> either grant or withhold it concerning this issue).
> >
> > Mike Lorrey
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>From
The Equalizer of Kingston
"Windows is a U.S. produce in both sences."
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