From: Joe E. Dees (joedees@bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue Jun 01 1999 - 12:17:31 MDT
Date sent: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:57:55 -0400
From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
Organization: http://lorrey.com http://artlocate.com
To: extropians@extropy.com
Subject: Re: Guns [was Re: property Rights]
Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
> "Joe E. Dees" wrote:
>
> > Date sent: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:09:39 -0400
> > From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
> >
> > > "Joe E. Dees" wrote:
> > > > (without
> > >
> > > > life, freedom does not exist).
> > >
> > > Without freedom, life is not worth living.
> > >
> >
> > Does being free demand that one be free perpetually carry the
> > means to commit mass murder-at-a-distance, any time, at a
> > moment's notice, even if one is underage, a violent criminal, or
> > certifiably insane? What does this say about the right to life, or
> > even the freedom, of those unknowingly around such a person?
>
> Under what age, violent by whose definition, and certified insane by what authority? You have
> not yet given a definitive answer to any of these questions.
>
I sure have, but I'll give it again; under 18, violent meaning having
perpetrated a physical attack upon another, and certified insane - a
danger to themselves or others is the standard phrase - by
legitimate psychiatric authority - all subject to appeal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Attacking my means of protecting my life is no different from
> > > > > attacking my life, and should be met with the same resistance.
> > > > >
> > > > If you're the attacker, you should expect the same; if you're likely
> > > > to be an attacker, you shouldn't own a gun.
> > >
> > > You are defining defending oneself against a confiscatory opressive government as
> > > attacking? I make the same warning: Anyone, I mean ANYONE, who tries to come and
> > > confiscate my guns will not live to see the sun set. That will not be an attack, it
> > > will be a defense, and an effective one. Confiscating guns not only violates the 2nd
> > > amendment, but the 4th, 5th, and 9th.
> > >
> > If you belong on the above list and are unwilling to relinquish your
> > gun, then I fervently hope that the same can be said of you (I mean
> > the part about not living to see the sun set), for the self-defence of
> > all of us. Confiscation of means of mass murder held by the
> > insane, underage or violent criminals is the only way to prevent
> > them from oppressing and killing others. If they would rather die
> > before they relinquish their weapon, it can just as certainly be
> > removed from their dead body. I am not advocating that anyone not
> > belonging to the above categories who possesses a gun should
> > have to relinquish it, so go suck that straw man's dick somewhere
> > else.
> > >
> > > Moreover, on your inclusion of spousal/child abusers in your confiscatory regieme, what
> > > standards will you have of what abuse is as well as what the burden of evidence and
> > > standards of due process will be? As they stand now, the abuse regs are very weak and
> > > do not give very good protection to the accused.
> > >
> > I have given those in another post; conviction should be sufficient,
> > as well as provisional confiscation while court proceedings are
> > pending or underway, or if a peace bond has been granted and the
> > person has shown a willingness to disregard such orders. Did this
> > strike a personal nerve, Mike? Conservative authoritarian types DO
> > have the highest rates of such abuse.
>
> I am neither conservative, nor authoritarian. Those labels seem to fit you far better than I.
> Such people also have high probabilities of using rude, insulting, and personally offensive
> language in debates, and it seems you also fit that bill the best of anyone on the list.
>
I return the slights I receive - in FULL KIND, and will neither be
browbeaten nor intimidated by anyone's electronic bullshit flood,
but rather answering them each and all. You and Mark the funky
unicorn are by far the most insinuendoish of the rabid pack of True
Bullet Believers which took it upon yourselves, in the Holy Name of
your Blued Metal Grail, to stifle the infidel and reimpose your
extremist hegemony on this list. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! Accept
it or not, the difference between I and thee is the difference
between mainstream and extreme. This isn't your own private
Idaho enclave; deal with it.
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