From: ASpidle@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 25 1999 - 18:02:19 MST
In a message dated 2/25/99 7:05:06 PM, you wrote:
<<Adrian,
Thank you for your compliment. I would like to continue our discussion
on a few of the points you have brought up.
"How about 'all powerful, all knowing, and Good' as a definition of God" -
This is a popular modern definition of God, and many people find this an
attractive concept. However, as you take you are seeking to derive your
knowledge of God from scientific observation of the universe, as opposed say
to some source of authority (e.g. a holy book, prophet, etc.), we should
examine this concept of God in the light of the Universe we find ourselves. I
think with a little effort most of us could at least outline a different
Universe with an internally consistant set of more benign laws and initial
conditions than the one in which we find ourselves. For example, I can
envision a Universe where from the beginning conscious beings are immortal,
difficult to harm, mentally sound, with the ability to constantly grow and
evolve, and where space-matter-energy are constantly created to provide
endless resources and experiences for the myriad peoples of that Universe.
Actually, this description reminds me of a couple other concepts, namely the
various concepts of Heaven, and even an Extropian future. An all powerful God
should be able to create such a Paradise. A benevolent God would want to
create such a Universe. And an all knowing God would get it right the first
time. Unfortunately, we do not seem to be living in such a Universe at this
time. What does this mean? To my mind it means that one or more of the three
attributes you describe are inaccurate. Let's examine the alternatives.
a) God is not Good - This leaves with either an Evil God, in which case if
said being had your other two attributes, then any Universe created by such a
being would be likely be as similar to the concept of Hell as our first
hypothetical Universe is to Heaven, or with a Neutral God, who most likely is
uninterested in any lower consciousness and has this Universe the way it is
for completely different reasons. For some reason, I find a Neutral God
somewhat of an unstable concept, but that could be an aesthetic bias, and I
must include the Indifferent Deity as a possibility.
b) God doesn't know everything - I have trouble separating the concept of God
being all powerful from God being all knowing. It seems to me that
omniscience would be a necessary prerequisite for true omnipotence. I think
most Extropians would agree that ignorance is an exploitable weakness.
c) God is not all powerful - This is an option I do see as a strong
possibility. Indeed, I can easily imagine a God who is Good, All Knowing, but
not All Powerful. This need not make God weak, or even defeatable. It is
possible that there may, in a sense, be an ecological niche with room for only
one, the Most Powerful niche. This Most Powerful Being could be more powerful
than any other possible combination of beings, but might be constrained by
some laws of existence. Even a few such constraints might in and of
themselves limit the type of Universes which exist, or a Good God might find
that these constraints might limit the ethically acceptable actions this being
could take. I believe some possible limits might involve the relation (if
any) of the Origin of God and the Origin of the Universe to one another. More
on this later.
Glen Finney
>>
Thank you Glen. I also suspect scenario "C" is most likely. Since I believe
God is a being(s) who emerges from us, that his nature (good, evil, powerful
but restrained, etc.) is yet to be determined and will, to some extent, be
designed by us.
Great posting, Glen!
Adrian
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