From: ASpidle@aol.com
Date: Wed Feb 24 1999 - 08:26:49 MST
In a message dated 99-02-24 08:32:30 EST, you write:
<< Adrian & Anders,
As someone with an interest in both >H and Theology, I couldn't resist
joining in on this discussion. I think one of the first things I would ask
of
you is what you are using as initial parameters. Theology, if I remember
correctly, means "The study of God (or gods)." This implies that you are
predicting the existence and or emergence of a God or gods. So my first
question is what criteria would a being have to meet to be classified as a
god? There have been several such standards suggested. Two that seem to be
fairly constant is Power and Worship. A god is thus defined as in some way
being incredibly (transcendantly?) capable, and/or being worshipped. Given
the strong libertarian and humanist background of Extropianism, worship might
be something that Extropians might find unappealing (for to worship implies a
level of submission, and to be worshipped implies having others dependent
upon
you). However, there is another way to look at the worship issue. If you
think first what qualities are worthy of worship, by which I mean what
principles (memes?) are you willing to give you life to and for (for some
people, the answer would be none), now posit the possibility of a being or
beings capable of exemplifying those principles perfectly, as well as having
the power to back up those principles, then you might just have found that
there is a God(s) to you.
Adrian, I believe you said you were interested in developing an
Extropian
Theology. This I imagine would have two main qualities, one would be a God
or
gods whom uphold Extropian values, and a Cosmology based on an Extropian
worldview. In such a theology, I imagine a deity would begin in some
material
substrate and develop through an evolutionary process. In fact, intelligent
life in this Universe might be considered the raw materials from which gods
will develop somewhere on the other side of the Singularity. I agree with
you
that such a deity would likely not be very interested in worship. You may
have some different starting points for the concept of a god, if so I would
be
very interested in discussing them. I also have some other ideas to discuss
as per the Monotheism vs Pantheism debate, but it will have to wait for
another post.
Glen Finney >>
Great thinking, Glen! How about "all powerful, all knowing and Good" as a
definition of God. I am certain God doesn't need worship in the traditional
sense. However, I consider the study of science to be the study of the mind
of God, and that this study is worship.
I include theology, ethics, morality, education, business, political science
and social science as sciences as long as they are done scientifically.
Monotheism, Pantheism is moot. God is both. God is made up of distinct
individuals (us or our successors) and an emergent corporate entity.
I have already developed my theology and am testing it in the Extropian group
since I have always been a Libertarian and find that I definitely believe in
the Extropian principles.
My cosmology is simply whatever is the standard model of the scientific
community and will change as that model changes.
Glen, thank you for your terrific contribution. I am thrilled that Anders is
interested (I consider him one of the most innovative thinkers and educators
of our time) and you are certainly a worthy adition.
Adrian Spidle
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