Re: Group Entity "Illusion"

From: Ian Goddard (Ian@Goddard.net)
Date: Fri Jan 29 1999 - 00:40:32 MST


At 02:45 PM 1/28/99 -0700, Dick.Gray@bull.com wrote:

>>IAN: A constellation is a collective entity
>>defined by an arbitrary selection of ordered
>>stars based upon a given point of view. A
>>galaxy is also a collective entity defined by
>>an ordering of stars, however, this ordering
>>isn't arbitrary or based upon a given point
>>of view, but may be caused by a black hole.
>
>The salient difference is not "arbitrariness" but category of existence. A
>constellation exists entirely within someone's mind, whereas a galaxy is an
>objective, coherent configuration independent of any mental state.

  IAN: A constellation is also a "coherent
  configuration" independent of the mind,
  or as independent as a galaxy is. The
  stars that form the big dipper are
  where they are regardless of me.

  If we say those stars are a big dipper,
  that dipper is a superimposed identity.
  If I say one star is a candle flame, that
  too is a superimposed identity, but simply
  because I can superimpose an identity on the
  star does not mean a star is not an entity,
  and so superimposing an identity on a group
  doesn't mean that the group isn't an entity.
 

>If you doubt this, try this thought experiment: imagine yourself 2 billion
>lightyears away orthogonally to the direction of the apparent position of
>the constellation. Where is the constellation now? Only in your memory. But
>you can still identify the Milky Way and other galaxies.

  IAN: A galaxy also looks different from
  different angles, so no point is made.
  That X looks different from different
  angles does not mean X is a delusion.

>A clear distinction must be made between mere abstractions or perceptions
>on the one hand and physical existents on the other. How else can we
>distinguish reality from Alice's Wonderland?

  IAN: Your seeing a stone as a single thing,
  not as the collection of entities it is, is
  no more or less an illusion than seeing any
  collection of entities as a single entity.
  The "group entity illusion" is a non-case.
 

**************************************************************
Visit Ian Williams Goddard --------> http://Ian.Goddard.net
______________________________________________________________



This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 15:02:58 MST