From: Damien R. Sullivan (phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu)
Date: Wed Dec 17 1997 - 15:05:02 MST
On Dec 17, 2:36pm, Wings of the Morning wrote:
> Damien R. Sullivan wrote:
> > Certainly guns are meant to kill. They're meant to kill creatures
> > trying to kill me, human or not. Perhaps you've forgotten about wolves
> Perhaps you forgot about something called competition. In the wild animals
> kill and get killed all the time. It keeps things in balance. Say we take out all
We are not in the wild. We are in civilization. Humans do not have to
kill and be killed all the time. If we made guns go away, as you dream
about, we could have many fun predators to deal with again.
> about presently. Within the last few centuries. And I'd like to see you look me
> in the face and tell me you wouldn't be more confident to go into war armed with
> radar, machine guns, tanks, jets, bombs, stealth technology, etc. than if you only
> had a sword. That was my point, I suppose I didn't set it up very well. I'm just
It's not whether I have a tank or a sword. It's what I have relative to
the other guy. If I have a tank, and he has a tank, I'll have third and
fourth thoughts about going to war. If I have a sword, and he has
nothing, then he does what I want or dies.
History before guns: chronic warfare.
History when machine guns had just been invented, and weren't fully
appreciated: World War I.
History when machines guns and jets were appreciated but most of Europe
thought pacifism and light armament could work, but Germany had lots of
guns: World War II.
History with nuclear weapons on both sides: peace. Or perhaps a
frightened lack of hostilities, but still: how many Americans and
Russians have died in conflict with each other?
> trying to look at it as a hypothetical situation, where in no guns had ever
> existed. Don't you think crime related deaths would be a lot lower?
No.
And you say attitudes have changed. Yes, partly because of guns and other
advanced technology.
> game. It makes boys and men equal. If gangs were based on brute strength and
> regular old street fighting, and members didn't have a gun to protect them, do you
Guns to protect them? What the hell protects me? Your historical
warrior is young, strong, and practiced in combat. I'm weak and
unskilled. They rule.
> active destruction, it's still destruction. I'd don't think you see what I'm
> getting at. How bout no destruction at all? Guns are easy, guns are democratic.
How bout free energy? There is no "no destruction". Any tool can be a
weapon, if you know how to use it. Weapons are simply tools with no
other purpose than to kill. Which means anyone can use them. As
opposed to an elite.
Power exists. You can't get rid of it. You can, however, spread it
around so that it balances and cancels.
-xx- GCU Mindstalker X-)
A dream of a meme
is a wonderful theme
or so we always do deem;
But a ream in a beam
causes termites to teem
or so it to me does seem.
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