From: The Low Golden Willow (phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu)
Date: Wed Apr 02 1997 - 12:36:54 MST
On Apr 2, 11:04am, "Perry E. Metzger" wrote:
} However, it doesn't appear that many people have been able to
} contradict the fundamental premise, which is that many (though
} certainly not all!) extropian types don't seem to actively work
} towards their long term financial self interest, or their long term
} physical survival.
What, you expect claims of perfection in the population? Those who
aren't so working can't contradict you; those who are have no knowledge
to speak of others, and apparently there isn't enough tribalism to call
out a defense of "extropians". The only way to refute you would be to
do a thorough study of how many extropians were being extropic, and no
one seems to care enough to do so. Can't imagine why. Maybe they're
too busy being extropic to hold polls for the sake of arguing with you.
At any rate, you won't get much challenge whether you're right or not.
} (which I was not entirely shocked to see), and a couple of platitudes
} like "selfishness isn't measured in dollars".
Well, it's not. Or doesn't have to be. Would I be faulted for not
working to be a millionaire if doing so would interfere with my
intellectual pursuits for the next two decades? Admittedly a 100 grand
stake would be nice, but at the moment I think I'm better off living on
6-7 grand a year (so much for the poverty level) and figuring out what I
want to do and what I might be able to get people to pay me to do. And
I am living on so little. (I'm waiting for my credit limit to exceed my
income. That'll be amusing. Not that I'd use it like that.) Or if
someone took a job they liked at half the salary of one they could hold,
but wouldn't like, and which wouldn't let them retire that much faster,
would they be insufficiently concerned with their financial well-being
then?
What anonymous specifically said about physical survival is even more
problematic. I'm rather ignorant of any strong evidence that vegan
diets are good for health and long life-span. I'm aware of evidence of
what bad diets are, lots of saturated fat and no fiber, etc., which
being vegan would avoid by default (unless done badly itself), and aware
of evidence for calorie restricted diets increasing lifespan, at least
in other mammals (is it true that mammals all have about a billion
heartbeat max lifespans, except for humans at 2-4 billion?) So I can
well avoid bad diets while (at 21) letting other volunteers have fun
debugging CR diets.
And while I'm not physically reckless myself, I hardly see why it need
be un-extropian do go skydiving, or whatever, carefully. There is a
legitimate quality of life question. And early space exploration will
no doubt be rather risky; will it be unextropian to be among the first
space colonists?
} Years ago, when Tim May gave me the "if you're so smart, why aren't
} you rich" speech, I took him seriously, accepted without letting my
} ego get in the way that I'd been screwing up my finances for some
'Cause you're smart enough to try to avoid having a mid-life crisis in
your (rich) middle-age, maybe. I could make a lot of money being a
60-hour/week programmer. I could also possibly go nuts, or at least be
highly frustrated at all the things I wouldn't be learning. Being a
6-hour a week web manager might be too far in the other direction... in
the long run. Or if I mismanaged my finances.
You and anonymous posted diatribes basically criticizing someone,
somewhere, for doing something wrong. No doubt someone was. Probably
someone was screwing up in the ways you were thinking of. So what? You
expect the list to deny that anything's wrong anywhere? You expect a
whole series of individual defenses like this one? Why?
Merry part,
-xx- Damien R. Sullivan X-) <*> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix
"I've stood in sunlight on one side of the street watching the rain fill
rushing gutters on the other. When the forecasters say there's a 30% chance
of rain in Tucson, it generally means that 30% of the city will get rained
on."
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