Re: Transforming Ourselves

From: Michael Lorrey (retroman@tpk.net)
Date: Mon Nov 18 1996 - 13:48:23 MST

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David Musick wrote:
> However, the sun may become unstable and explode if too much matter
> is taken away from it (I don't know very much about that, so perhaps it
> wouldn't, but I think that the fusion reactions in the core of the sun are
> being held in by the immense mass pressing in, and if too much was removed,
> the fusion reaction could explode, if it's not contained tightly enough.
Or,
> perhaps it would cool down as mass is removed, since there is not so much
> pressing in and forcing so many hydrogen atoms to fuse with each other. I
> don't know).

Actually, since the heavier elements are at lower levels in the suns
"mantle", stripping off the higher levels will "age" the sun, by
increasing the percentage of heavier elements. This is likely to
increase the cyclic instability, creating more violent flare seasons,
known as "Maunder Maximums", as well as the possiblity of minor novas,
which are like huge flares. Since our sun is so small, it is not likely
to supernova, however to puny life forms like ourselves, a mere nova
flare of short duration would fry at least the half of the earth facing
the sun, and cause huge storm systems to arise sweeping round the planet
that make HUGO look like a minor depression. Not a good outlook to say
the least. For the half of the planet that survived, they would have at
least 40 days and nights of rain.

>
> But if turning off the sun was not possible, and even if it was, it would
> probably take a while to do that, and meanwhile lots of energy is being
> wasted. [These guys are hard-core Extropians, remember, so they will be
> constantly working to decrease entropy in the universe and increase extropy
> (it's just the most intelligent, self-serving approach)]. So, they will
want
> to harness as much of this energy as possible. Perhaps they will build some
> kind of solar collectors which orbit the sun. They may have *many* of them,
> all orbiting in different orbits at different angles. They will think of
> something, but they will likely need lots of matter to do this. They can
> probably get a lot of matter by stripping it away from the sun, and they can
> also use the planets and other objects in the solar system, converting this
> matter and energy into increasingly intelligent and extropic systems.

yeah, I don't know if you've ever read Larry Niven, but he loves these
sort of concepts. His Ringworld, Ringworld Engineers, and recently
released Ringworld Throne all are set in a world that is a band of
superstrong matter circling a star. THe band is 100,000 miles wide, and
as big round as earths orbit. Its got thousand mile high walls on the
sides to keep the air in by centrifugal force. Something like 35
trillion sq. miles.

unfortunately, solid structures orbiting a planet or star are unstable,
and are therefore impossible without some active measures to adjust
perturbations in the orbit caused by this natural instability. All such
ring or shell structures would eventually precess to the point of
contacting their primary catastrophically (what a way to go out, eh?).

>
> I hate to be a doomsayer, and generally I am not, but I honestly believe we
> have a serious problem coming in the future and we need to deal with it
> intelligently. I also believe that the only realistic way of dealing with
> this problem is to radically transform ourselves into incredibly powerful
and
> intelligent beings, so we can keep up will all the others who are doing the
> same thing. And I am optimistic that we can keep up, if we are committed to
> and continue advancing ourselves quickly.
>
> I stress that there are many things we can do right now to begin
transforming
> ourselves and making ourselves more intelligent by developing powerful
mental
> disciplines for ourselves and learning how to use our minds much more
> intelligently.

Not only ourselves, but enabling everyone to reach their maximum
potential. Our resource base here on earth is too small if we wish to
retain our ecology (yeah, oxygen would be nice! And food too!) and
spread a western lifestyle with all the technical doodads to the whole
world. yeah there's plenty of resources availble if your willing to
scrape the crust up, but that does not seem like an elegant option. What
then? SPACE, beat your ubermachinas to the best real-estate.

> Someone please convince me that my reasoning is incorrect. I don't
> necessarily want humans to be wiped out, but I'm not sure that it can be
> avoided sooner than is comfortable for most of us.
>
> - David Musick
>
> - question tradition -

Hey, its how you make it. If we choose to be part of the solution rather
than part of the problem, then it will be no problem. i see a greater
problem with >H fuedalism developing, the "god" chosen versus the
slugs. If we continue to be exclusive amonst ourselves, or confiscatory
towards the most capable, then when and if AIs develop, they will wizz
right by us as we continue the old arguments. Everyone needs to realize
that not only do you need to teach starving people to fish, but they
need to pay their teachers tuition for the lesson.