From: Spudboy100@aol.com
Date: Thu Dec 26 2002 - 15:16:19 MST
Charlie Stoss indicated:
<<greed with all of the above.
(I'd like to add that you might want to look at *why* Saudi Arabia funds
wahabite propaganda and terrorism, and *who* is doing it, and ask yourself
why the US government hasn't moved against them many years ago. It's
extremely dirty ...) >>
I am an enemy of the saudi regime and the wahabbi sect-point blank, and end
of story. All American presidencies and the US State Department are friends
of the Saudi regime, without question. We have the Georgetown mafia running
American international affair, to the disadvantage of the American people
(Georgetown University is over-represented at State. Shades of The
Brotherhood of the Bell.
<<. Unfortunately it's also morallyequivalent to expropriating the oil --
theft, in other words. ("We're going to enter into this voluntary arrangement
whereby you give us oil
and we give you money. Except we're going to tell you what you can buy
with this money at the company store. Don't mind these bombers, they're
just there to ensure that you don't try spending it with anyone else.") >>
Stealing from a theif or a murderer (at least) is not really theft, or if it
is so, it is tough tookey for said Saddam. By America be vengeful, we have a
chance at eliminating a tyrant, and giving oil money to his people, that they
would not ordinary receive, with said bastard on place :-)
<<Western dependence on middle-eastern oil doesn't just render us vulnerable
to middle-eastern dictators; it's morally corrupting in the same manner
as slavery.>>
No question.
<<That doesn't
mean it's modernist, it means it's fundamentalist and confrontational.
The strain of Islam practiced in Arabia is comparable to the strain
of Christianity espoused by the Aryan Nations. And it's got large-scale
financial support from the monarchy, which is terrified that if it doesn't
continue to support the mosques it will be overthrown in a revolution.
(There *are* reformist and modernist strains within Islam, from the
Shiite Bohras to various Sufi sects. The Wahabite response to these
is "kill the heretics!" Friendly folks.) >>
British historian Bernard Lewis, has examplified the Wahabbis, as if the KKK
had inherited Texas oil fields, early in the last century. No disagreement.
<<Worse. Let us assume a successful US invasion and occupation of Iraq. I'm
not going to speculate on what would happen if Saddam puts up a strong
resistance, or nukes Tel Aviv, or whatever, because those aren't the
worst outcomes. >>
One of the secrets of America's support for Israel, in dollars anyway, is the
American expectation that if terorists or an military attack did inflict
unacceptable damage on Tel Aviv, for example, one of the outcomes may be
detonated Arab gulf oil fields, to wit: Saudi Oil taken offline. I believe
this "relationship" evolved rather then was planned by anyone.
The American Leadership love-affair with Saudi Princes, is going to come to
an end, one way or another, and rather soon, I suppose. To my way of
thinking, those peoples that wiped out 3000 Americans in one day, need to be
violently, punished. Again I state that this is not a majoritarian view on
this list, simply my own.
<<Al Qaida terrorism with the big
bucks of State terrorism. Worse, it might catalyse a similar revolution
in Pakistan (which has nukes and the means to deliver them) or Algeria
or Yemen. And it'll do this when the US military is tied up occupying
Iraq.
To figure out a solution to this problem is not going to be easy. And
to repeat: I don't think it can be done as long as we restrict ourselves
to the tools of 19th century Realpolitik or 20th century Oil diplomacy.
-- Charlie>>
I am unappologetic, regarding Islamic radicalism. I believe they need to be
eliminated one way or the other. The other path is new oil resources from
West Africa (for one) as well as conservation technology and vast, new,
resources to power transportation. This last category would be big money in,
big money out, and fuels other then petrol.
This would choke the Wahabbis, and whether this war or peace I support that
effort.
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