From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Wed Dec 04 2002 - 12:36:22 MST
Mike Lorrey wrote:
> --- Hubert Mania <humania@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>>Spudboy said:
>>
>>
>>>Wow! I must be a lightning-rod for bad vibes from the Euro's.
>>>Because, a few narcissitic
>>>Leftists want America beaten to a pulp, does not mean I
>>>chose to. That, in essence, is what
>>>following the "peace movement" path seems to lead to.
>>
>>So, speaking up for peace means bad vibes meanwhile. Did not think it
>>was "that" bad.
>
>
> While I think that Spudboy meant 'nihilistic leftists', not narcissitic
> (entirely opposite states, btw), he is essentially correct. Those who
> are in the peace movement have taken the pacifist mantra to ludicrous
> extremes and automatically assume anything that the US government does,
> especially any GOP US government, is automatically evil and to be
> opposed. They want the US to totally disarm, to not even respond to
> attacks here at home because we so obviously deserve to be attacked for
> our alleged past injustices.
Typical Lorrey bald generalizations abound. There are quite
good and thoroughly extropic as well as libertarian reasons to
be opposed to most military actions that the US has been
involved in in the last half-century at least. Accusing all
those who raise the flag of peace against war, especially
current wars and rumors of wars, of being simpletons and
automatically knee-jerk anti-US is spurious and uncalled for.
>
> I've parked my car to talk to some of these types who maintain a near
> 24/7 vigil near the busiest onramp to I-89 here in Lebanon, and are
> generally Dartmouth students, here. Their grasp of logic and reality is
> very badly skewed by the propaganda of Chomsky and others of the sort.
> They are also heavily involved in the anti-extropic luddite and
> anti-globalization movements which have been shown to be funded by
> groups which also are known to fund insurgency and terrorist groups
> around the world (like al Qaeda) from Latin America to Europe to the
> muslim world.
>
If you can refute Chomsky's views then that is one thing. But
to accuse him or those who find his arguments convincing of
lacking in logic or grasp of reality is ridiculous. To use the
argument that "some of those who fund X also fund Y means that X
should be condemned as we condemn Y" shows a poor grasp of logic
and justice indeed. It is a common smear tactic and should not
be tolerated in any remotely rational discussion. Waving the
"Al Qaeda" flag at every opportunity is as bad as comparing
everyting we we disapprove of to Nazi death camps.
> I'd also like to point out that in the past year, groups like ELF and
> ALF have changed their tactics from attacks on property to attacks on
> persons. Executives and scientists with companies which conduct testing
> on animals and introducing GM products have come under attack from
> bombers and bat weilding gangs. In one example, one individual involved
> in research that uses stapleguns on animals was attacked with a bomb
> impregnated with hundreds of nails. Another animal researcher was
> beaten to death by three hooded individuals with baseball bats (no
> personal property was taken).
>
I see, lets throw more and more flak into the air about every
group that is offensive in the hopes that all things that offend
Mike Lorrey will be tarred with the same brush. Again, this is
not reasonable. It is rabble-rousing at its worse.
> My earlier calls last year for more forceful action against the luddite
> movement were rebuffed by many who claimed that the luddites had not
> committed sufficient degrees of violence to justify such response. In
> light of recent events, what sort of excuse do you now make?
>
It no more makes sense to use forceful action against all you
brand "luddite" than it makes sense to use forceful action
against, say, all Libertarians because a few Libertarians take
extreme and/or repulsive actions. A reasonable grasp of
justice is not an "excuse". The perps of such violence will
reap prosecution just as vigilante justice against "luddites"
should also be prosecuted.
- samantha
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jan 15 2003 - 17:58:34 MST