From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Nov 15 2002 - 08:57:23 MST
Wei Dai writes
> [Lee writes]
> > I have started several threads on this list under the title of "Repeated
> > Experience", and I defend that course of action in certain situations.
> > It beats several alternatives, IMO.
>
> I don't remember seeing such threads on this list, but a Google search
> shows some posts by you under that title on the cryonet mailing list.
> Would you care to summarize your arguments here?
It's a pity that the archives don't go back to January 1996, but
fortunately I do have some good exchanges on record between Hal
and me, and several others. I'll summarize my arguments with the
most cogent criticism that I found. It seems to me that Hal and
I did discuss the issue more recently on Extropians, but I don't
know when, and your failed Google search is not encouraging.
> > This is strange. Why shouldn't we want to value those subjective
> > experiences that give us great joy or satisfaction?
>
> In the future we'll be able to redesign our motivational systems and
> consciously decide which subjective experiences will give us joy or
> satisfaction.
YES! YES! YES! I can hardly wait. I've looked forward to this
for a long time now.
> When we have that technology, your questions becomes "why
> shouldn't we want to value those subjective experiences
> that we decided will give us great joy or satisfaction?"
> which no longer makes sense.
The way I look at it, it still makes sense: how ever we get
the great joy, contentment, ecstasy, satisfaction, fulfillment,
etc., the experiences will be valuable mostly just because
all those things are valuable (to me).
> Instead, let's ask which subjective experiences should give us joy or
> satisfaction? I think it should be those experiences that reliably
> indicate that we're succeeding in accomplishing our goals.
So long as our motivation isn't affected, why not obtain all
the positive emotions that we can regardless of our progress
towards our goals? Yes, it's a little tricky: one wishes to
still be disappointed when one's project in Gratification
Research or Mathematics (ultimately all that is left to do
in the far future) fails. But why shouldn't one be ecstatically
happy anyway? We can control our motivation by the time you
refer to.
> But perhaps you have no goals other than to have as many experiences of a
> certain class as possible. In order to accomplish that, you'll probably
> need to delay having those experiences until you've first gathered as much
> resources as you can.
There will be some so-called "hedonists" for which the above is true. But
that's because they're not *true* hedonists. The true hedonist has great
goals at least in Gratification Research.
> Now go back and ask yourself why do you value the experiences
> that are your ultimate goals? Could it be that you were once
> programmed by your genes to feel joy or satisfaction when you
> experienced them, and then uncritically adopted them as your
> ultimate goals even when they've outlived their usefulness,
> even when your genes no longer exist?
I can tell that we are not using the word "experience" in the
same way. If I am moved to joy by a piece of music, then you
speak of my experience as hearing music. Well, okay, but the
*important* part of my experience is the joy attending it.
You're right: music's main purpose now is the way that it
makes us feel, and of course eventually we won't need it
anymore. We can feel however we like.
Lee
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