From: Alfio Puglisi (puglisi@arcetri.astro.it)
Date: Wed Oct 30 2002 - 14:12:53 MST
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 Dehede011@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 10/30/2002 11:42:12 AM Central Standard Time,
>puglisi@arcetri.astro.it writes: I said that the Socialist party kicked him
>out. Seven years later, when the communist party got official recognition, he
>was already on the extreme right.
>
>Why do the socialists do this? As a capitalist I observe your vicious and
>bloody wars over the minutia of your beliefs and wonder what it is all about.
Step down. Who are you talking about with "your"? For the record, I don't
consider myself socialist, capitalist or whatever else. I don't seem to
match labels quite well. And in discussions with you, I pointed out some
factual errors that you made and gave some random thoughts about the
discussion. Nothing worthy heating up.
>Why do the socialist do this?
What's "this"? The expulsion of Mussolini? It's like a prominent member of
the Green party started out of the blue advocating dumping used nuclear
fuel on the nearest beach. Would he remain a member of the party for long?
The political blood pressure was also quite higher than now.
>other branches of the socialist movement. The very term Nazis seems to have
>been a deliberate intended insult from other socialists that was never used
>by the National Socialists themselves.
More or less correct
> Take Trotsky, he couldn't even leave Russia and hide out in Russia.
>The socialists killed the man.
He found himself agains Stalin, not the best enemy to have :-) After
having been expelled from Russia in 1929, he went to various European
nations and then to Mexico, where he was killed by a Stalinist agent.
> Consider Hitler and Mussolini. I doubt the war was over before
>socialists were trying to redefine them as "right wing." Perhaps they were
>right wing within the socialist movement but they certainly were not right
>wing in the general sense of the word.
I don't know if the term "right wing" was in use, but since the first
years of fascist power, they and the socialist party were on the opposite
sides of the political spectrum.
> Consider the following scenarios. Did Hitler and Mussolini first make
>billions in the stock market and then enter politics? Did they first gain
>fame as immensely wealthy and successful industrialists? Or did they come
>into power as socialist thugs turned rabble rousers?
The problem is the different meaning of the word "right". Here, Mussolini
and the following Fascist party are more or less the definition of "right
wing". The same can be said for Hitler and Nazism in Germany. Big capital
and industry support may be an aspect of right wing-ness, but it's not
required in Europe. And the extreme right wing is more the territory of
street bullies and football fans.
> I think I will use Occams razor and stick with the first history I
>received on Mussolini.
Sorry, I'm just trying to give some informations. I'm a lot nearer, you
know :-) The previous discussion about "right wing" is an example of the
distorsions that can be introduced looking at Europe history with an US
background, and of course the contrary.
Ciao,
Alfio
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