From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Sep 27 2002 - 11:32:04 MDT
Jef writes
> I feel compelled to jump back in here again, some fifty or more message
> exchanges after I withdrew, to try again to express what seems to me is
> already obvious to both sides of this debate.
thanks!
> This issue of human behavior and "motivation" involves different sources, or
> causes, of the behavior. We have what we consider "conscious" chosen
> behavior; [and on the other hand] socially ingrained behavior patterns
> of which we may be unaware; [and] physically and chemically induced behavior
> patterns; [and] genetically influenced behavior patterns, and we could
> perhaps go even deeper. I think we would all agree with this.
Very good. I do agree. I hope that you don't mind my
insertions just in case some people don't know what
semi-colons mean :-)
> The point I tried to make several weeks ago, and felt that Lee privately
> recognized it, but chose not acknowledge but instead to focus on the
> meaning and usage of words, is that our behavior, made up of these various
> "motivators", is often best understood taken together as a system. Taken
> separately, they can be discussed as free will, versus instinct, versus
> social coercion, etc.
Okay so far. (At least so says my morning personality who
must rush off to work now!)
> At the lowest level, altruism doesn't exist, because at this level
> the individual doesn't exist. At the level of meaning that people
> commonly use to describe interpersonal relations, yes, altruism
> certainly does exist, by definition.
I would agree, although I do think that one needs to distinguish
between genuine altruism and altruism that benefits the *individual*
(not necessarily his genes). Do you agree?
> In my opinion, if we could ever get past the quibbling over
> definitions we could move on to more interesting and fruitful
> discussion of the role of "altruism" now and in the future,
> examples of altruism in other species, and non-zero sum
> interactions in general. Now *that* could be interesting.
I'm all ears, and hope you're going to be able to continue
to help here.
Lee
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