From: Eliezer S. Yudkowsky (sentience@pobox.com)
Date: Thu Sep 12 2002 - 06:35:48 MDT
Samantha Atkins wrote:
> Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
>
>>
>> No, Samantha. I am not attempting to limit who is or is not part of
>> transhumanism. I am, however, objecting to a statement that "racial
>> diversity" is valued by transhumanism/extropianism because I personally
>> feel that race is *absolutely irrelevant* and that to value "racial
>> diversity" departs from the principle of colorblindness. Others may
>> feel differently and still be part of transhumanism. Thus a statement
>> intended to represent transhumanist views as a whole should ideally
>> remain neutral on the subject.
>
> I agree and disagree. To those of various different types who have been
> marginalized, knowing that they are welcome and that we truly are open
> to all who share our principles with no exclusions is quite important.
> In that sense it is not simply "irrelevant".
That is not an issue of race. That is an issue of comforting a sentient
being which has experienced a past trauma and fears the trauma may be
encountered again. This trauma may have involved an illusory concept
called "race" held by other sentients, but I don't need to buy into that
illusion to feel compassion, to offer assistance, or even to offer
reassurance.
>> >> And likewise from the perspective of combating racism, I believe
>> >> there is no value to either racial diversity *or* racial unity; in
>> >> the face of the future race is simply irrelevant. To attempt to
>> >> value "diversity" is to abandon colorblindness.
>> >
>> > Hardly. Seeing everything has monotone is not the same thing as full
>> > acceptance and welcoming of all persons of like mind regardless of
>> > otherwise different from you they may be.
>>
>> Race is not relevant as either a difference or a similarity.
>
> Well, yes, but it was one of many differences.
It was never a difference. It was one of many illusory "differences" that
human beings used to separate themselves from other human beings.
> That they are not
> relevant to you or your treatment of others within our outside of
> transhumanism/extropianism does not mean it is of no value for these
> groups to state that such openness is a matter of policy.
Fine. Let's do so. I still strongly object to a general transhumanist
organization making the statement that we *value racial diversity* because
this statement is incompatible with my beliefs about the moral and
rational value of colorblindness.
>> >> If every transhumanist were of the exact same race and body type, I
>> >> don't see how it would make the slightest difference one way or the
>> >> other. How does this supervene on cognition?
>> >
>> > Cognition is not everything.
>>
>> Race is not anything, except insofar as there are still some people
>> remaining who unfortunately pay attention to the irrelevant bundle of
>> characteristics they call "race".
>
> Why keep harping on race and seemingly ignore the more general point?
*What* more general point? Someone wanted to state we valued racial
diversity. I objected. You objected to the objection. Are you
withdrawing your objection^2 and raising a different point to debate? If
so, please state it so that I can decide explicitly whether I agree with it.
-- Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/ Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 02 2002 - 09:16:58 MST