From: Brian D Williams (talon57@well.com)
Date: Thu Sep 05 2002 - 10:27:16 MDT
>From: Harvey Newstrom <mail@HarveyNewstrom.com>
>I have stayed out of this, but it is unbelievable to me too.
>People who are anti-government seem to be very pro-military. Some
>who think taxes are an initiation of force believe in forced
>military service.
I must have missed this, who advocated that?
>Some who believe in self-governance think civilians shouldn't be
>allowed to vote. Some who would like to see no government at all
>wouldn't mind if everybody was ruled by veterans and nobody
>without military service could vote or have any say in their
>government.
You are confusing an example with advocacy, and in "Starship
Troopers" it was federal service, not merely military service.
It was a discussion.
>Some who believe in self-determination think that all rights or
>citizenship must be earned.
They are earned. Just not everyone earns them.
>Some who believe in diversity and the value of individuality think
>veterans are better than civilians.
Different. And it is Veterans who've paid for citizenship for all.
>Some who speak the most for individual responsibility and see no
>need for a social net seem to be the worse self-victims whining
>about how hard they had it and how easy the civilians have it.
Try keeping it civil.
The military is a safety net for civilians.
>The military experience is obviously far beyond the ordinary lives
>of mundane people. However, the conclusions some are drawing with
>respect to the military seem so out of character for them or so
>contrary to their other expressed viewpoints, that it borders on
>brainwashing or mental conditioning. Their military personality
>seems disconnected from their civilian personality, to the point
>that they express radically different goals and views that are
>incompatible with their other non-military viewpoints.
>This is not meant to attack or specifically point out any specific
>viewpoint as being wrong. I am not arguing for or against any
>specific idea.
Yeah you are.
>(That's why I am staying out of it.)
Till now.
>However, I am noting an extreme inconsistency with some of these
>expressed viewpoints. They seem incompatible with these same
>people's positions when we are not discussing the military. I
>would have never dreamed that anyone could advocate taking away
>the vote, having citizenship "earned", having self-governance
>limited to veterans, or giving government control to the military.
>In any other context, these ideas would have never been expressed
>on this list.
Again we were talking about an example of another form of
government as portrayed in "Starship Troopers". Again in "Starship
Troopers" it was Federal Service not exclusively military service.
But yes, the one thing I do agree with here is that it might be a
good idea to have to earn citizenship.
Thanks for your input.
Brian
Member:
Extropy Institute, www.extropy.org
National Rifle Association, www.nra.org, 1.800.672.3888
SBC/Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W
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