From: Dickey, Michael F (michael_f_dickey@groton.pfizer.com)
Date: Wed Sep 04 2002 - 11:53:48 MDT
From: gts [mailto:gts@optexinc.com]
>... right now, we are all 'predestined' to die because
> of aging, that is, because we all still age, and aging leads
> to death, we will all die.
"That is a statement of determinism (and fatalism) if ever there was one.
:)"
Of course you cut my elaboration...
"I refer to predestined and determined in a physical sense,
i.e. extrapolations based on known laws of physics, not in a metaphysical
epistemological sense. Conquering this 'predestination' is what I was
referring to as an extropian meaning of immortality."
Perhaps 'predestined' was an ill chosen word because of the apparent
semantic hang ups and philosophical implications it has to you. Regardless,
the intent of my message is clear. The common conception of 'immortality'
is different from you dictionary quoted definition, which in a real sense is
not possible.
"As I also stated, the "end of the universe" represents a special case.
If the universe comes to an end then of course all bets are off. "
Of course, and 100% assurance of immortality is thus impossible, regardless
of the 'quantum tunneling' problem.
"Most of your message continues to ignore this important point."
Apparently you did not read the entire message as I elaborated why repair
mechanisms in redundancy would not succumb to the 'quantum tunneling'
problem you are so concerned about. You ought to be more concerned about
heat death.
"you seem wont to belabor the fact that my general definition of immortality
does not provide for the special case
in which the entire bleeping universe disappears. :)"
You explicitly state your definition of immortality as 'immune from death'
Dying at the end of the universe is still dying, thus you are not 'immune
from death'. But you remove the end of the universe from something being
contradictory to immortality by considering it a 'special case', you are
moving the goal posts. Who cares if 'the entire bleeping universe
disappears' subjectively death is no different from the entire universe
indeed disappearing, so whether it objectively ceases to exist or you
objectively cease to exist is irrelevant, as the outcome is the same. You
have defined the word 'immortal' so strictly that it could never be used in
a real sense (immunity from death with 100% confidence) and then deride
others for not following the strict definition of immortality (exempt from
death) when you yourself do not (ignoring the end of the universe) There
are a few phrases I can think of to describe such a act, but hypocrisy is
the first that comes to mind.
Regards,
Michael
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