From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Mon Sep 02 2002 - 22:20:28 MDT
gts writes
> Hello Lee,
>
> > gts writes
> >
> > > > > Can you give me an example of human action
> > > > > for which there was no motivation?
> > > >
> > > > Easy. I looked down just now and noticed that my ankles are
> > > > crossed as I type. I don't remember putting them that way.
> > > > I think it's a habit.
> > >
> > > I think you crossed your ankles because you were motivated to
> > > feel more comfortable.
> >
> > This is precisely the same misuse of the English language that
> > animates your takes on altruism. Your pattern of thinking in
> > these two cases is to lay down uninteresting novel definitions
> > and axioms, and then draw a lot of unwarranted conclusions.
>
> I hope you can see how bizarre the exchange above appears.
>
> I concluded that you crossed your ankles while sitting at your computer
> in order to make yourself feel more comfortable, and you call that an
> "unwarranted conclusion" and a "misuse of language."??
I was objecting to the use of the word "motivation". Here
you use "because", and that's acceptable to me. You have
also provided a nice *explanation* for why I cross my legs.
> Come on now, Lee. I also like to cross my legs (or sometimes my ankles)
> while sitting here at my computer. I'm not always conscious of my
> decisions to switch positions but there is no question that I do so
> because it makes me feel comfortable. I shift positions probably every 5
> or 10 minutes or so, simply because my legs get stiff oriented in the
> same position, or for some similar reason. Ultimately I do so simply
> because it makes me feel more comfortable.
Right. Now I'm sure that we would agree that it would be
incorrect to say that my heart beats because I'm motivated
to get blood to all my organs. I see a continuum here; at
the "top" we commit actions that are extremely deliberate,
at the bottom, the entities that we are could be said (in
a sense only) to channel blood through their veins. Perhaps
we disagree on where "motivation" fits on the continuum.
I don't see you distinguishing your use of "motivation" from
other terms in a way that captures the usual nuances. And I
think that a parallel thing goes on over our usages of
"altruism".
Now it's true that sometimes people speak of "unconscious
motivation", but I think that this is a pretty narrow
application, and that they're referring to something at
a pretty high level (e.g. status-seeking, insulting,
procrastinating). The usual sorts of things done
unconsciously (like crossing your legs or knotting your
brow) one does not speak of having a motive for.
Lee
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