From: Technotranscendence (neptune@mars.superlink.net)
Date: Fri Aug 30 2002 - 19:29:13 MDT
On Friday, August 30, 2002 10:09 AM Brian D Williams talon57@well.com
wrote:
>>Perhaps, though Brian and Mike both seem to
>>be making the claim that they are morally superior
>>to all others for their choice to join the military. I
>>disagree with that -- which is not to say
>>that either is morally inferior or at all lacking of character,
>>but just that one does not follow from the other.
>
> Strawman argument in the extreme.
Not at all. I did insert "seem" in there, so that gave both you and
Mike a way out.
> Neither Mike nor myself has made any such claim.
Not directly, though you imply it.
> Retraction please.
Since I used "seem" there's really little to retract. Also, I would ask
both you and Mike if you believe you working in the armed forces gives
you any special claims in society. You both seem to think it does. For
example, you wrote on Thursday:
"It is of course both painfull and infuriating to those of us who have
paid a heavy price for our citizenship to see this country run down by
people who have paid nothing for theirs."
This seems to imply moral superiority in those who signed up with the
armed forces.
Your earlier remark:
"I am both a Citizen and a Veteran, and put 4 prime years of my life on
the line so you could express your opinion, so express away..."
also implies moral superiority. You mean -- unless I'm seriously
mistaken -- that you've earned the rights that others enjoy merely by
circumstance. This seems to smack of the moral superiority of the guy
who works to earn $1 million versus the guy who just inherited from his
dad.
Later you said:
"My personal belief is that to have equal rights one should pay an equal
share of the costs."
So this backs one of my claims above.
(I would also warn you that rights are not earned or given. They just
are. Someone's right to life is not there because they've earned it --
else anyone could kill a child or most college students and even many
adults. Perhaps we're using rights in a different sense. I would take
them to mean the kind of Lockean or Rothbardian (or even Randian, since
that's my pedigree:) freedoms of action. Governments can either
recognize them or not. People might fight for them or not. (Also,
serving in the armed forces is not equivalent to fighting for rights.
Yes, it might involve fighting, but not necessarily for rights -- and
the US armed forces certainly have a mixed reputation in this area.
True, it might be better than, say, the Red Army or the army of most
other nations, but this does not excuse the bad stuff.))
Also, by your continued mentioning of your tour of service, it almost
seems as if you're using it to belitte others. (Please note the "seems"
in there.) I'm not saying you are doing this on purpose, though you've
done it repeatedly. That would lead some to feel this is what you are
doing. If this is not your intention, then you should just discuss the
issues and present counterarguments that don't go along the lines of, "I
am both a Citizen and a Veteran, and put 4 prime years of my life on the
line so you could express your opinion, so express away..."
Or wait for the Singularity and we can sort all this out with the help
of superior minds.:)
Cheers!
Dan
http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/
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