From: Charles Hixson (charleshixsn@earthlink.net)
Date: Thu Aug 29 2002 - 09:42:32 MDT
Brian D Williams wrote:
>>From: "Lee Corbin" <lcorbin@tsoft.com>
>>
>>
>>No lies here, Mike. No bullshit, either. There is a sincere
>>difference of opinion. I do appreciate the motives of people
>>like you and Brian to do what you can for the country you
>>believe in, but most people on this list (alas) don't have
>>countries that they believe in.
>>
>>
>That is the crux of the problem.
>
>It is of course both painfull and infuriating to those of us who
>have paid a heavy price for our citizenship to see this country run
>down by people who have paid nothing for theirs.
>
>We have a saying for it: "For those who have fought to defend it,
>life has a flavor the protected shall never know."
>
>This is not a new problem and one I consider often, ever since it
>was presented to me by Heinlein in "Starship Troopers."
>
>Heinlein's reasoning of course is that people don't respect things
>they haven't had to pay dearly for. In "Starship Troopers" you
>couldn't vote unless you had done a period of Federal Service.
>
>
That's one valid aspect of the problem. But people tend to value and
believe in things that they have paid for irrespective of whether or not
they objectively deserve value. So it isn't exactly a correct answer.
People value things that they pay for, and don't value things that they
get for free is a (relatively) true statement. But it says nothing
about the intrinsic values of the items in question.
Since marines are never drafted, I think that it's a fair guess that you had a high value on the government of the country before you ever enlisted. Likewise, those who were disturbed by the actions of the government refrained from becoming obligated to carry out their wills without judging them (as a marine must do). And this magnifies an earlier bias. I would guess that you will now defend actions from the government that you would not earlier have defended. Likewise that a draft protester will denounce actions of the government that he would earlier have acquiesed to. Both of you have paid to defend positions of pre-existing belief, and in doing so have become more extreme in you opinions. This is a part of the way that people are made. But it doesn't imply much for the truth of either side.
I believe that even so, you will admit that the government has done some things that you would not, as a private person rather than as a marine, defend. Perhaps we might differ about just which things, but that's not the point here. If you notice that some of the government's actions are indefensible by yourself, when in the role of a citizen rather than in the role of a marine, then you should be able to grant that others may also find some actions of the government to be indefensible.
Personally, I consider the constitution to be paramount, and I don't believe that any lawyer has the right to tell me that it doesn't mean what it clearly says. There are, I admit, some vague areas, but that's not where the current action lies. Consider, e.g., that it says that no war shall be declared without the agreement of 2/3s of the senators. Do you really believe that a "police action" constitutes a legitimate was of evading that restriction? Presidents from Adams (at least) on have believed something equivalent, because it was convenient for them. Bringing this forward to the present, do you really believe that some act written in 1991 justifies overriding this constitutional provision? We've gotten to the point where the argument isn't even entered. There are clear procedures laid out in the constitution for proceeding here, and our "president" isn't considering them. (The quotes are because I can't really consider someone who so flagrantly violates his oath of office to be a real president
, not because of the election fraud [which, as usual, both sides engaged in].)
>Brian
>
>Member:
>Extropy Institute, www.extropy.org
>National Rifle Association, www.nra.org, 1.800.672.3888
>SBC/Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W
>
>
-- -- Charles Hixson Gnu software that is free, The best is yet to be.
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