From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Thu Aug 15 2002 - 17:00:15 MDT
Mike writes
> > Do you honestly believe that anyone or any
> > collection of people can turn public opinion
> > on and off?
>
> In all times and places? No. Sometimes? Yes. Do I think this has been the main
> goal of all marketing agencies, big media, public relations firms, political
> parties, etc, and that the making of this art as a science is a fairly recent
> (like roughly the start of the 20th century) phenomenon? yes.
When one of his children was running for office in another state,
and was asking for too big a financial contribution, Joseph P.
Kennedy thundered, "I will pay for the election, but I will NOT
pay for a landslide."
Indeed, especially in politics, a highly organized and financially
well-backed group can get out the vote for their candidate. If
you've no money, and do not have an experienced staff, you can
forget about winning an election.
> I also think Gatto is being a little simplistic here when he says 'on and
> off'. I think it is much more about framing the debate, defining the terms and
> vocabulary. It's obvious (at least to me) that TV news analysis shows only
> ever allow two definable and simple viewpoints.
Yes, but "this simplicity" I found throughout the first four pages that
I read. I do agree with a number of his points, however, such that it's
an incredible waste to spend $200,000 per student in the USA.
> And I have said before when discussing Gatto that it can't be that bad, since
> I learned to read quite well and quite quickly perhaps especially as I didn't
> even speak a word of English till age 4 or 5. But...
Yes, but as you went on to indicate, you were pretty much a self
starter anyway. In the words of Edward Gibbon, "Education is
seldom of much efficacy, except in those happy dispositions in
which it is almost superfluous" (although to be fair, he was
talking about moral education).
> I learned to read well because of my own efforts, not
> because of my American education.
While from the little I've read of Gatto, I probably would
agree with his solutions, but definitely not his explanations.
He still comes across to me as having what I would call the
mentality of a conspiracy theorist.
Here is another direct quote from
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/prologue4.htm
"Easy money and easy travel provided welcome relief from
wartime austerity, the advent of television, the new nonstop
theater, offered easy laughs, effortless entertainment.
Thus preoccupied, Americans failed to notice the deliberate
conversion of formal education that was taking place, a
transformation that would turn school into an instrument
of the leviathan state."
Yes, while we are very familiar with the way that federal
money is used to control school curriculum and other aspects
of education from Washington, I don't believe that it was
deliberate, at least in a calculated and underhanded way.
Liberals merely believe that the government can do a lot
of good by setting standards nation-wide, and supplying
ample money. His use of "deliberate", "transformation",
and "leviathan" sends strong signals to me that his
thought can't be trusted very far.
More importantly, just how successful is brainwashing
students anyway? Sure, Captain Planet has managed to
convince every kid between ages 5 and 15 that corporations
are evil, governments good, and that the environment is
holy and anything pro-environment is automatically good.
But so what? By the time the kids are old enough to
think for themselves, their own intuitions, their own
family and friends, and their own random immersion in
the social fabric will put them on some course, possibly
quite different.
I just don't see how this guy could have taught school
all these years and say things like
> Looking backward on a thirty-year teaching career full
> of rewards and prizes, somehow I can’t completely believe
> that I spent my time on earth institutionalized; I can’t
> believe that centralized schooling is allowed to exist at
> all as a gigantic indoctrination and sorting machine,
> robbing people of their children.
Gigantic indoctrination machine? Robbing people of their
children? Is he from Earth?
Lee
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