From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Aug 13 2002 - 18:35:28 MDT
--- Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 11:14:03AM -0400, Michael Wiik wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps, but I am encouraged by readings in the Washington Post
> about
> > how debate is increasing in the Muslim world about what kind of
> society
> > they really want. It seems radical Islam may be on the decline.
>
> But is this because of, or in spite of, the taken US policies? I
> think it is far more in spite of them, unfortunately. There were
> quite a bit of Muslim self-criticism in the magic days after the
> attack too.
No, there wasn't. I distinctly recall that the overwhelming
preponderance of muslim media was consumed in a) denials that muslims
could be involved, b) that even if they were the US deserved it, and c)
conspiracy theories that it was actually the jews who did it. This was
about the full range of opinion, even on Al Jazeera television. I would
hardly call those the 'magic days'.
The Washington Post article was planted by the Saudi Embassy as an
attempt to dissuade support for a growing movement on capital hill to
treat Saudi Arabia as at best a non-supportive neutral state, and at
worst the source of the problem, and thereby end support of the Saud
regieme. The Sauds are also reporting that they are going through the
school systems now (nearly a year later) and destroying all of the
voluminous anti-American propaganda in their text books (anti-semitic
propaganda is still hunky dory curricula)
--- Rafal Smigrodzki <rms2g@virginia.edu> wrote:
> Brian D Williams wrote:
>
> We are at war, and still more than a little pissed. Many of our so
> called allies have proven to be fair weather friends.
>
> ### Who says? There has not been any recent official war declaration
> by
> Congress. Considering the clandestine use of special forces in
> foreign
> countries, without a state of war is folly of the worst type.
Bin Laden declared war on the US many years ago. Clinton wimpily chose
to ignore that declaration, and we've paid the price for that.
>
> -----
> I do think we should join the ICC for instance, but I also think we
> should withdraw from U.N. peacekeeping missions.
>
> ### Yes, the ICC sounds good.
Not to me. A court without any course of appeal, no means to impeach
the judges or standards for recusal, and where charges can be laid
based on no evidence? It is a travesty, a mockery of the idea of
justice.
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