From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Mon Aug 05 2002 - 22:06:50 MDT
Kenneth writes
> It seems to me that both sides of this argument have their points, but
> neither is entirely correct.
I think that you are correct.
> Freedoms (personal, economical, etc.) haven't all gone up or all gone down.
Exactly so.
> We seem to have made a trade-off. We can't choose what to put in our
> bodies (drugs--prescription or prohibited) but aren't subject to being
> slaves. This trade, though, wasn't necessary.
Right again!
> It is entirely possible to outlaw slavery without trampling on every other
> personal liberty. What seems to have happened is that, as time progressed,
> we *should* have been gaining freedoms, not engaging in a combination of
> gaining-losing. So, in that sense, we have "declined" because we have not
> advanced at an appropriate pace.
Yes, progress within limits must be simultaneously appreciated
and expected. We should not on the one hand think that everything
is going to hell (as so many are wont to do), nor on the other rest
satisfied. Especially worrisome, yes, are the freedoms lost.
> We should be praising the fact that freedom for women, blacks, etc. have
> increased, but we should be appalled that our government has felt the
> need to terminate many of our other freedoms along the way.
Yes, but did you get a load of Charlie's
>Women were not admitted to institutes of higher education...this
>was the state of HALF THE GODDAMN POPULATION!!!
and Damien's
> I was numbed to read today that [certain] colleges for women,
> were not permitted to award their women... degrees until 1921,
> and women were admitted to full membership...IN NINETEEN
> GODDAMN FORTY-EIGHT!
and the extent of their outrage at conditions rather conveniently
situated in the unalterable past? Interesting that in this case
my ilk wants to focus on present diminutions of freedom and lament
accordingly, and theirs on the past ones, with little interest
in liberties lost.
Also, I think that it's partly to do with the nature of those
freedoms lost. (And no, for all you fire breathers, trolls, and
demagogic partisans, I *don't* mean freedom to enslave people
or freedom to lynch blacks, etc.).
What you were free to do in 1850 but not now:
1. sell your child to the highest bidder
2. own a working artillery piece
3. practice medicine without a license
4. discriminate against whomever you pleased for
any reason you pleased
5. buy and sell merchandise in your home
6. shoot at robbers and burglars
Lee
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