From: gts (gts@optexinc.com)
Date: Mon Aug 05 2002 - 10:58:49 MDT
I've often pondered these questions about altruism and like others I am
skeptical that such a beast actually exists, at least as the word is
normally defined.
I am a believer in evolutionary psychology: I believe our genes play an
important role in determining our personalities and behaviors. And we
humans are clearly a social species. We've lived together in tribes of
various kinds for millions of years. There is little question that
evolution has selected us for our tribal nature. This genetic coding
would be expected to result in the organism feeling a sense of reward
from social interaction.
My own experience validates this theory. When I act generously toward a
stranger I feel a rewarding sense of community. Probably that rewarding
feeling is a genetically and culturally programmed response to
constructive social interaction. The feeling is especially apparent in
situations such as that used in the example of allowing someone to leave
a crowded parking lot ahead of me. Unlike the restaurant tip example,
the parking lot example is more likely to end in a brief communication
with the stranger. The rewarding feeling will be amplified when that
person smiles and waives a friendly "thank you" and I reciprocate with a
smile and some kind of "you're welcome" gesture. The unspoken message in
the communication from each party to the other is, "Hello stranger. Yes,
I agree, we humans are all on this spaceship together, and it is good
for us all that we be considerate of others. Have a good day."
Is this altruism in a pure sense? I don't think so. I believe it is a
way of validating ourselves as valuable members of society. The desire
for this sort of social validation is likely built into our DNA.
Gordon Swobe
Peter C. McCluskey wrote:
> lcorbin@tsoft.com (Lee Corbin) writes:
>
>
>>But what did I way all that? The best examples are those given
>>by Ridley (tipping at restaurants you know you'll never visit
>>again) and by me (allowing someone out of a crowded parking
>>lot even though it delays your own journey a bit). IF you
>>could observe (secretly, of course) these behaviors, then you
>>could announce the experimental probability of the actions of
>>altruistic genes.
>>
>>
>
> Are we disagreeing about anything other than whether the term selfish
>is a good label for the causes of these habits?
> I go about deciding whether to label these behaviors as altruistic by
>observing whether they look like consistent policies of being nice to
>people. I don't see anything in your test for genuine altruistism that
>isn't a test for consistent policies of being nice.
> You think The Origins of Virtue is a good description of why these habits
>evolved. I think the The Mating Mind is a good description. Since neither
>book implies that the other is wrong, I'm not sure whether this indicates
>much disagreement over the causality.
>
>
>
>>>>The other reason is much more conjectural; it could very
>>>>well happen IMO that by repeatedly announcing to oneself
>>>>that every act one does is for a selfish reason, less
>>>>cooperative behavior in one could develop. I actually
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I can sort of imagine how describing cooperation as selfish (i.e. describing
>>>the benefits of cooperation) could reduce cooperation, but it's hard to
>>>see how this is more likely than, say, the hypothesis that convincing
>>>people that good behavior will be rewarded by a trip to the Christian
>>>version of heaven will cause them to act nicer.
>>>
>>>
>>I think that in some cases it does cause people to act nicer.
>>And so likewise I worry that some people may be less altruistic
>>because they've convinced themselves that their altruistic
>>urges are irrational.
>>
>>
>
> Well, I believe the same about heaven. Is that a good reason for concluding
>that heaven exists?
>
>
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