From: Anders Sandberg (asa@nada.kth.se)
Date: Tue Jul 16 2002 - 09:21:10 MDT
Good point, Mark!
On Sat, Jul 13, 2002 at 08:57:20AM -0400, Mark Walker wrote:
>
> > This telos in some sense is the inevitable consequence of the human
> > tendency to use better solutions when they are found (and to look for
> > them). That doesn't make it right, just as its prevalence in our culture
> > does, but it shows that it will always crop up.
> >
> I think that we are agreed that "that doesn't make it right". The point of
> course is to show that transhumanism does not appear "shot from a cannon" (a
> self-image I think some transhumanists enjoy) but is actually the telos of
> these great cultural projects. Even if we agreed that humans have a tendency
> to use better solutions this still does not go to the heart of the matter,
> since the question is: "what are the goals that require solutions?"
This is something I think transhumanism needs to articulate better too.
One common goal theme seems to be to extend life - its length, width and
depth. The reason is often stated as life (both one's individual life
and life as complex systems in general) have an inherent value. Given
this start, one can then set out to answer the question in terms of how
life could be enhanced. It seems that many of the more structured
transhumanist philosophies follow this form: Tipler's OPT, Dave Pearce's
Hedonistic Imperative, the Extropian Principles etc.
> Pragmatists like James and Rorty would agree with me in the main that this
> drive to perfection is implicit in the great cultural projects of the
> West--they sometimes choose to lampoon this with the suggestion that the
> goal is to get a God's eye view on the world. They conceive their project as
> reconfiguring the telos into a more "humanly attainable" goal.
It is interesting to consider whether they would chance their minds if
it became an attainable goal. For example, if evidence for the existence
of a magical ritual or mechanical device that would provide the telos
was found, would the pragmatist position then change?
> Again, I don't think this is a matter of saying that it makes it right.
> It does, however, show the relevance of transhumanism to the great cultural
> projects of the West and also makes the choice clear: either pragmatism or
> transhumanism (i.e. either scale back the ambitions or scale up the
> participants). There is no third choice.
Well, there is a third, nihilism, but it has never worked and nobody
cares... :-)
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension! asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/ GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
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