RE: from cryonic suspension to upload

From: Greg Burch (gregburch@gregburch.net)
Date: Thu Jul 11 2002 - 05:46:21 MDT


> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org] On Behalf Of spike66
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:22 PM
>
> In all the discussion about cryonics this week at the office,
> I found nearly everyone I spoke to (90% engineers) would
> dismiss the notion of a frozen brain ever being revived. But
> when I introduced the idea of nanobots mapping the
> configuration of the still-frozen brain and creating an
> analog in the computer, most granted the possibility. The
> idea of a future holodeck existence even appealed to several
> of them. Perhaps when dealing with skeptics, we should point
> out that we can create software emulators of any computer,
> and our brains are computers. spike

Because for some odd reason <*> knowledge that I'm signed up with Alcor
seems fairly widespread among a sizeable group of the people in my law
firm, I end up having to "explain" this oddity in my personality fairly
often. When the opportunity for an explanation runs to more than the
ten-second sound bite <**>, I usually offer this very idea. My
experience jives with yours, Spike: On a "technical" level, people seem
much more likely to "accept" the idea when I say that I don't expect my
frozen brain to ever be revived in anything like the biological form I
currently have, but rather to serve as an informational pattern for some
completely different kind of physical existence.

> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org] On Behalf Of Damien Broderick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:58 PM
>
> At 08:21 PM 7/10/02 -0700, spike wrote:
>
> >Perhaps when dealing with skeptics, we should
> >point out that we can create software emulators of any computer, and
> >our brains are computers.
>
> No no 1000 x no!
>
> When dealing with *the deep and inducted inner circle of the
> secret upload Masonry*, we may point this out. Otherwise,
> nyet! That's *exactly* the kind of claim that will send most
> decent, ordinary, wholesome, warmly human (you
> know) kinda people gagging and screaming for the exits.
>
> "THIS MAN WANTS TO CUT OFF OUR HEADS, FREEZE THEM, AND THEN
> TURN THE REMAINS INTO ICY SOULLESS ROBOTS FROM HELL!"
>
> Better not to go there, don't you think, not at the outset.

There's a level at which you're right, Damien, in this respect: Most
folks who encounter the idea of uploads reject it because it runs
counter to their unreflective assumption of the existence of an
"essential" "ghost in the machine". But both ideas -- cryonic
suspension and uploads -- are so far beyond the ken of most of my
audience that adding the latter to the former doesn't appreciably
undermine my credibility. The majority leave their exposure to both
ideas just shaking their heads and assuming I'm as crazy as they've
heard I am. For a significant minority, though, the concept that
cryonic suspension may be just a step to an upload enhances the validity
of the former idea, because of its obvious technical merit.

The key, I've found, is how one responds to questions about these
subjects in an emotional way. By taking a humorous, self-deprecating
approach ("it sure sounds crazy, huh?" with a smile and a shake of the
head) I can get people to at least listen to what follows, rather than
reach for their torches and pitchforks.

<*> The reason for this, I suppose is the seemingly inexhaustible
curiosity of the young lawyers in a big law firm for information that
can give them some insight into the character of the partners they work
for. Once they find out that I am in fact the oddball they've heard
about, they're much more comfortable in working with me, since they
figure whatever peculiarities they have in their own characters won't
necessarily disqualify them for success in their career. This
information then seeps into the "associate network" as local legend.

<**> I've seen some great new sound bites in the discussion here in the
last couple of days. My usual one is to quickly analogize it to
Pascal's Wager which, it seems, most people have an instinctive
knowledge and appreciation of, even if they don't know the name for it.

Greg Burch
Vice-President, Extropy Institute
http://www.gregburch.net



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