From: Anders Sandberg (asa@nada.kth.se)
Date: Tue Jul 09 2002 - 02:33:58 MDT
On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 09:55:31AM +1000, Colin Hales wrote:
> As a leaf it can be hard to tell whether the forest is healthy.
> What's your slant on this, Anders? How does the forest look to you?
I think I largely agree with your brother (and much of Waldemar's post).
The system has created a culture where entrepreneurs are rare and
doesn't fit in with the official morality - companies are supposed to be
large power structures that the must be handled by the unions and
government.
There is also cultural aspects; Sweden scored highest on Gert Hofstade's
'femininity' cultural dimension, meaning among other things that
competition is viewed as inferior to cooperation - ideally everybody
should win, or at least get the same amount. This makes the "I'm going
to work hard to make myself rich" idea seem strange. I think this trait
is something that has been strongly encouraged by the social democrats
and their system, but it existed beforehand too. No wonder a lot of the
discontents and entrepreneurs left for the US in the 1800's.
> 1) The big hand of the state comes out of the sky each month into your bank
> account and removes some of your take home pay in state enforced savings.
> (Not sure how this relates to any superannuation/retirement funding system),
> apart from the usual witheld income taxation and sales related taxation.
> This is initially quite an invasive imposition to one not used to it. The
> clear message "You are not capable of sensibly and/or equitably handling
> your finances long term, so we'll do it for you, now get out of the way, we
> have access to your bank account".
Exactly. The system doesn't really view people as able to handle their
own lives, or rather, the risk that someone would fail due to
incompetence means that it is better to manage things for everyone.
> 3) If asked if he could ever be regarded as Swedish by the locals he would
> say no, no matter how long he lived. This is quite a shock to someone from
> Australia, where place of birth and appearance are relatively meaningless.
> My brother has light caucasian features and his dress and hair...looks
> Swedish. He is told he has 'no accent'. I think he has learnt to fake being
> a local. He knows that being perceived as a local is important. I think his
> ability to fake a swede somehow enabled his original residency.
I don't know about this. I think swedes gladly think there is something
special about being a swede. We don't have the loud nationalism of many
other countries (and people often make fun of flag-waving Norwegians,
and view US nationalism as both silly and creepy), but instead a more
insidious form: the swedish model and its values are the best in the
world. So it is our duty to inform everybody else about it, so they can
come to their senses and become like us. When Sweden joined the EU
several leading politicians told the voters that they were going to
teach the EU how to handle things better. A rather amazing conceit.
It is rather hard to become "integrated" into swedish society, although
I think it is not impossible for an Australian. It is far harder for
other immigrants.
> In moving to Sweden (I still don't know why - It's the sort of thing my
> brother typically just 'does'. He's like that), my bother described it as
> living in a kind of economic cage or, perhaps more accurately, like living
> with a safety net so securing that you never actually get off it onto the
> trapeze of life.
Exactly! Nobody should ever truly fail, even if that means nobody ever
suceeds. And of course, in practice quite a few people still manage to
fall off the safety net or strangle themselves in it.
> One other interesting issue is that of the experience of Swedes as tourists
> in Australia: There is an 'I'm out of the cage' aspect to their experience.
> Some handle it better than others.
The Alpine countries know this: every year they get loads of swedes who
suddenly find themselves in a place where alcohol is not heavily
restricted and cheap. You can guess what happens :-)
> [I think it may have
> been the depression disorder that relates to the light levels at those
> lattitudes - the .au light blew out his pineal gland :-) ]
Could be; living at 60 degree latitude (roughly the same as Anchorage,
Kap Farvel and northern Kamtjakta) or more has some effect. The high
latitude makes people here respond a lot more to sunlight than in other
places, both due to large seasonal variations and the culture of trying
to make the most of the short summers. Whether the summer is going to be
sunny or rainy is something people care about deeply. The change in mood
here in Stockholm in spring is a sight to behold.
> I hope to visit bro and family in the not too distant future.
If you do, tell me and I can show you around.
All in all, Sweden is a fairly nice place to live in. But it has a
system, interlinked with culture, that is not very productive and
absolutely refuses to deal with it. I worry that one day reality is
going to
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension! asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/ GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
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