RE: Nothing (was: RE: Changing One's Mind)

From: Hal Finney (hal@finney.org)
Date: Mon Jun 17 2002 - 11:33:14 MDT


Wei Dai writes
> We believe that there is a mathematical structure that corresponds with
> our physical universe, which implies that mathematical structures can
> contain sentient beings.

Lee Corbin replies:

> Only in a passive sense; yes, there are extremely large
> integers, and even more real numbers, which definitely
> are me. Quite a few even start with the sequence
>
> .080512121599122599140113059909199912050599031518020914...
>
> which is easily discerned to mean
>
> . h e l l o m y n a m e i s L e e C o r b i n ...
>
> and it goes on in rather excruciating detail giving my life
> history, my beliefs, a large number of funny anecdotes,...

It might help to expand the set of Platonic entities beyond numbers.
For example, perhaps you will agree that geometric figures (triangles,
squares, etc) have just as much existence as numbers; then perhaps
geometries themselves: plane, n-dimensional, elliptical, etc.

Then you might be willing to grant Platonic realism to computer programs.
A program exists in a certain abstract sense, even if it is never actually
executed, just as a number exists even if it is never written down.
The program's output and run history are fully defined by the program,
so they have a certain kind of existence as well, similar to the sense
in which numbers, geometric shapes, geometries, etc., exist.

If computer programs and their outputs, even their execution histories,
have Platonic realism, then it is easier to see how we could be living
in such a reality. We know that if we were running as a simulation on
a computer which existed in the physical world, it would not be possible
to tell what sort of reality embeds the computer program. Maybe Platonic
reality is enough.

If computer programs and their run histories and output have a certain
kind of abstract reality independent of whether they are ever actually
run in the physical universe, what will life be like for the "simulated"
beings who exist in those programs? Maybe their life is just as
convincing and real to them as our own is to us.

In that case, of course, there is no actual difference between physical
reality and Platonic reality. What we call physical reality is just the
inside view of a very complex Platonic structure.

This then invites the question of why we experience this particular
universe, if all universes exist (as they would, if all computer programs
exist); why our universe is as complex (and as simple) as it is, and
so on. These are the issues which Wei created the "everything exists"
mailing list to discuss, http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/everything.html.

Hal



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