From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Sun Jun 16 2002 - 23:24:58 MDT
Emlyn writes
> Lee Corbin wrote:
> > > about runs (program executions) that from the Operating
> > > System's point of view are entirely deterministic. Your
> > > calculation (i.e. your experience) determines only one
> > > bit of output that the OS uses: namely whether or not
> > > to terminate the second execution mid-way through.
>
> Eugene wrote:
> > Because both runs are deterministic, only one outcome (to
> > press or not to
> > press) is possible. That information is available at the first run. If
> > you're the second run, and you vote to terminate, you're
> > doomed already,
> > regardless of what you do.
>
> If the universe is deterministic, what value is there in either run?
You make it sound as though you have a good answer to "If the universe
is not deterministic, what value is there in either run?". Do you?
> How is 0 runs any worse than 1 run? As long as the starting
> conditions and the processing mechanism is well described,
> so is the entirety of the determined existence.
Yes.
> What is experience, in this context?
I would say that we've been driven to this impasse by our assumptions:
(1) we live in a mechanical universe, there are no souls, and even
the constituents of living organisms (as well, then, as the living
organisms themselves) obey the laws of physics (2) the behavior of
anything is reducible to inputs and outputs (3) the Church-Turing
thesis (one form of which is that whatever can be calculated by a
machine is Turing machine computable) applies to us too.
Therefore, experience (i.e. subjective experience) corresponds to
a particular kind of calculation that at present only animal brains
do, but which we think could equally well be done, in theory, by
any Turing machine (which of course is completely deterministic).
> Do we propose a value for run #1 based on an assumption of dualism?
Not me, nor, I would think, anyone who has so far spoken up
in this discussion.
> If not, where does calculation of the determined existence add value?
Value isn't objective, of course, but is a function of one's
value system. Human beings almost always highly value events
and processes described as joyful, stimulating, pleasurable,
satisfying, ecstatic, fulfilling, and producing contentment
(to name just a few). The assumptions above appear to compel
us to assume the same for quite a large class of program
executions.
I certainly value processes that are thus describable.
Lee
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