From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Wed May 29 2002 - 09:31:44 MDT
Alex Ramonsky writes
> >I've lost track of who wrote what here so apologies for any lack of clarity!
> >Somebody wrote:
> >
> >Well, I'm prone to this inquisitiveness as much as anyone,
> >but what's not in me is to say: "Hey you two! Quit talking
> >about that." Shouldn't we all fight the urge to tell other
> >people what to do in situations that don't necessarily affect
> >us?
That was me, Lee Corbin.
> >(Now I do not want to be misunderstood as advocating
> >"anything goes"--- I'm sure that the list monitors would
> >step in if some thread descended to personal abuse, or to
> >blatant pornography, or to *things that Lee Corbin cannot
> >in his infinite wisdom anticipate* right now. And so should
> >they rightfully step in. It is true, finally, that this
> >list is private property.)
That was also me, not "somebody else". I inserted my own name
for ironical purposes.
Now on to your extremely important message:
> If you are seen as part of a group, the behaviour of every single member
> of that group affects you personally. New members and the general public
> are going to judge the group according to what they see in real time. If
> I joined a new group and the topics on its mailing list were unpleasant
> in my opinion, I'd withdraw, not perhaps realizing that these posts were
> a minority. I'd then tell others who asked about this group, "oh, they
> just seem to talk about murdering all the time; don't bother with them,"
> etc etc. If someone started causing bad trouble in public and shouting
> about being an extropian, I'd hesitate to ally myself with anything
> connected with that word.
Please, everyone, I'm quoting all this because it is important!
> And I'm on _your_ side! ...remember there are anti-extropians out there
> looking for anything to discredit us...and heavily controversial
> conversations could provide them with ammunition. Don't tell me you
> don't believe this list never gets hacked or that anti-extropians never
> join it to monitor what's talked about!
I did not know that this list gets hacked.
> I know I'm a cyberchondriac but
> don't tell me that everyone is so security conscious that they never
> leave this mailing list sitting on the computer screen in front of their
> friends whilst they go and make dinner or whatever. This list is not
> private, and no conversation on it can be considered private.
> As a member of a group we all have a responsibility not to do anything
> deleterious to the reputation of that group. We're in control of the
> reputation we get only as long as that responsibility is acknowledged.
I believe that Alex's post is of great historical importance,
and will perhaps in years to come be seen as a turning point.
There used to be quite a number of us who posted on this forum
in a completely open and fearless search for the truth. One
actually reveled in the freedom to do so. No one curbed anything
that he or she said or thought out of fear that there was an
enemy "They" who could use it against "Us", or that some folks
with sensitive dispositions would be appalled.
It is said that our reputations are paramount:
> [personal abuse is] a far cry from discussing stuff that people
> are highly likely to misunderstand or deliberately twist and
> use against us. Discussions which fall into this category should
> be kept off the list (and preferably encrypted) because it's not
> how _we_ interpret them that will affect the reputation of
> extropians, it's how they will be interpreted by people who
> would prefer it if we didn't exist.
Harvey writes
>> [Lee wrote]
>> But I will defend the propriety of anyone to raise any
>> issue on this forum WHATSOEVER, provided that it is done
>> in a civil tone and is in compliance with the list rules.
>>
>> Do you disagree?
> YES! This is the Extropians forum. Only topics of extropian interest
> should be discussed here. Other discussions are off-topic and need to
> be taken elsewhere. Such off-topic discussions are in violation of the
> list rules.
I guess my statement did have a certain 18th century flavor,
and I should concede that it's no longer sufficient to simply
ignore topics that don't interest you. Huge political stakes
are now involved, and---if I've got the picture right---every
post should be written with a consciousness of the potential
harm it may do the Extropian cause. The issue isn't really
whether something is "off-topic" or not: lots of abstract
math topics and other miscellany constantly occur on the list,
and none of us objects to that. What is important is that
Extropians present a positive and favorable image to outsiders.
But I am hugely disappointed that it has come to this.
Lee Corbin
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