From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Fri May 24 2002 - 01:42:48 MDT
Charlie Stross wrote:
> On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 02:10:31AM -0400, Harvey Newstrom wrote:
>
>>All these arguments about how to value people, who is more valuable,
>>when is killing OK, when is theft OK, when do the ends justify the
>>means, etc. are bogus. They are written by people with too much time on
>>their hands, who are trying to lead us down the slippery slope toward
>>some violent revolution.
>>
>
> Excuse me, but I'm having a really bizarre vision right now, of what
> the Extropian Revolutionary Front will look like in few years' time.
> (That's what you get when extropians stop being content to agitate from
> the sidelines and start thinking about mandating change, get rebuffed
> by the mainstream, and adopt Lenin's vanguard party doctrine by way of
> revenge.)
>
> It's not pretty. In fact, it's pretty hellish.
Yes, it is, isn't it? Congratulations, you got it in one!
Living ultra-high-tech lives means that all aspects of ourselves
are empowered and magnified. I don't believe we can afford a
magnification of some of those traits that might have kept us
alive and healthy back on the African savannah but aren't
exactly conducive to our well-being when almost our every
thought can instantly affect our world. Two apes fighting it
out might be somewhat annoying and unfortunate but it doesn't
threaten everyone as much as too super-powered and
ultra-intelligent post-humans who decide to have a go at
destroying one another.
With the tech that is on the drawing boards invasion and
coercion go to an entirely new level. I don't believe we want
to go there. I don't believe that developing our weaponry
faster than the others and living in mutual distrust and finely
balanced potential hostilities is very healthy with what we have
now, much less what will be at our disposal post molecular
nanotech and real AI.
>
> If you mix coercive tactics, or even plain old-fashioned discrimination,
> in with extropianism and high technology, you get a very, very nasty
> end product. Previous tyrannies at least left the contents of your skull
> alone -- they yammered propaganda at you, but if you're used to resisting
> the blandishments of modern advertising you should be aware that most
> propaganda is considerably less effective than that. An extropian tyranny,
> enforced from without in accordance with the usual parameters of a tyrannical
> system, wouldn't be content with mere physical compliance. The flip side
> of uploading as a viable procedure is downloading, and could well be
> abused to give new meaning to the phrase "the Stalin in your soul".
>
> If you feel any kind of aversion to this possibility, you
want to think
> very hard about mixing coercion with extropian ideas. Before
it's too late.
>
Yes. I have had this dystopian vision myself. I thought the
Christian hell was a myth until it occurred to me that a
malevolent transhuman could very well torture an opponent to
death, over and over for all eternity. Especially if it was
left up to an automated system. Not pretty at all.
We need to realize that with the powers of gods come the
responsibilities and temptations of gods. We need to understand
that we must grow inside in the type of beings we are and not
just grow in longevity, fancier more indestructible and capable
body, much more extensive and useable memory, vastly greater
processing power and improved communications with one another
and all information online. All of that, won't get us one iota
toward a world we really find a joy to be in if we keep all
those attitudes, these conditionings and habits of thought and
action, that can make potential paradise a high-tech hell.
There is a huge need to fully envision, not just in its
technology but in all its living aspects, the kind of world we
wish to live in and how we would want to interact with other
people and feel relative to others. Then we need to consider
how we ourselves need to change to fit into that world. And
then how we can change and how we can get self and society to
that world from here. There is a lot more to our transformation
that just using technology to super-charge ourselves.
- samantha
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