From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Wed May 15 2002 - 01:22:20 MDT
Mike Lorrey wrote:
> Samantha Atkins wrote:
>
>>Mike Lorrey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This is absolute rubbish. Name one 'relatively primitive' population
>>>that is vegetarian exclusively. While it may be easier to do so in a
>>>warmer climate, it is absolutly impossible to do in any climate with an
>>>appreciable winter, and the further to the poles you go, the more
>>>carnivorous cultures seem to be. An exclusively vegan diet does not give
>>>a person the energy they require to perform the exhausting labor that
>>>primitive cultures require to build and maintain shelter, food gathering
>>>and processing, and sanitary conditions.
>>>
>>You are mistaken. The Far East traditionally is very largely
>>vegetarian. Most cultures wer not that strict about it but most
>>of the diet is vegetarian with occassional fish and other meats
>>in China for thousands of years.
>>
>
> Rice is the staple for carbs, but I don't see much in the way of legumes
> going on in the Far East. Nor is 'occasional fish and other meats' a
> 'vegetarian' diet.
>
What, you never heard of Indian dahl or of soybeans or of tofu
or tempeh? All used in the far east for a very long time. As I
mentioned many groups are pure vegetarians and do not consume
meat at all.
>
>>India comes the closes to a
>>full lacto-vegetarian diet among some sects of Hindus and
>>Buddhists. It is certainly not impossible to be vegetarian in
>>climates with cold winters (but not subzero all year long) if
>>sufficient stores are kept. It does not take a lot of
>>sophisitcation to do this. I did not speak of an exclusively
>>vegan diet but that do is quite possible. There is no lack of
>>energy or body heat from a vegetarian diet. I don't know why
>>you think there is, but your information is faulty. And I am
>>absolutely lost as to what you believe vegetarianism has to do
>>with sanitary conditions. Veggie food is a hell of a lot more
>>sanitary in its production, consumption and storage than meat.
>>There are also several diseases that vegetarians can't catch as
>>they are exclusive to meat eaters.
>>
>
> I didn't say that you couldn't get the energy for your diet from
> veggies, in fact, I noted that the Frontier House Clune family put too
> much emphasis on protiens and not enough on carbs, resulting in the
> husband becoming malnourished.
>
> Furthermore, you specifically ignored my statement about tropical and
> semi-tropical climates being kind to vegans, since you are using
> inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent to attempt to disprove my
> statements.
>
It get's quite non-tropical in Northern India! Your statements
were assertions to start with. I point out that your assertions
of why meat is absolutely critical to survive anywhere except
the tropics are over-inflated both on the basis of nutrition and
of actual extant cultures and histories. The exception where
you are correct is where it is so cold year round and the soil
so poor that only meat and dairy is generally available. Places
like Tibet and the Far North where only eskimos survive without
major modern aids come to mind.
> On another note, I'll note that there are diseases which vegetarians can
> catch, which exclusive meat eaters are immune to.... anemia for one,
> diabetes is another.
>
I have been anemic when I was a meat-eather and meat-eathers are
hardly immune to diabetes. Where did you dig up the notion that
they were?
>>Veggies are full of carbs. Some of them are 100% fat (avocado
>>for instance, nuts for another are quite high in fat for their
>>weight. Some veggies (legumes primarily) have *more* proteien
>>than beef does. So what is your gripe?
>>
>
> My gripe is the claim that anybody can life off such diets. They can't.
> How many Olympic athletes or bodybuilders achieve their victories on
> vegan diets? Zero. In an environment which is very physically demanding,
> a vegan diet doesn't provide what is needed.
>
Millions of people do in fact live off of these diets. The vast
majority of humankind are neither Olympic athletes or
bodybuilders. For that you need high protein and carbs and both
are available in veggie forms so I hardly see it is impossible
in the slightest. You continue to make baseless assertions.
- samantha
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