From: Harvey Newstrom (mail@HarveyNewstrom.com)
Date: Thu May 02 2002 - 12:02:06 MDT
On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 06:13 am, Amara Graps wrote:
> Have hope, Harvey. Advances *are* being made, even though there are
> times when it doesn't look like it. Take a long view and compare to
> some years ago.
I do believe advances are being made. That's why I'm still around. I
have no doubt that real science will continue. However, I am beginning
to question our public activities. Real scientists don't need pep
rallies and promotional events. I don't think we are even on the radar
scope of most real scientists. Who are we attracting with our
meme-spreading? I think we are getting more space cadets, racists,
subversive radicals and movement-seekers than anybody really advancing
technology. How many people on this list actually are working in the
fields we promote and inventing new technology to advance those fields?
I am not sure that number would be higher than found in the general
population. At some point we need to figure out a way to measure our
effectiveness. I am not at all sure we will like what we find.
> There will be fringe and extremists of any group. Always. Usually
> they wax and wane, are more vocal and less vocal. In time, they kill
> each other off or die (figuratively or literally). Usually ignoring
> is the best policy.
Normally, I would agree. But in our group it seems that the fringe
elements outnumber the main ones. Most of those who started with this
movement have moved on. We argue more about when we should start
killing people than we do about life extension. We argue more about how
uploads can be controlled and manipulated for their own good than we do
about freedom and self-governance. We talk more about how to stop the
"other side" rather than how to jump-start our side. I have been in
this movement since the late '80s, and I am not sure what we have
accomplished since then. I'm not sure anything would have been
different without us.
> In my observation, Extropy Institute went through some of this in
> years past. One story that affected me was a press piece about the
> extropians printed in the San Jose Metro (a widely-distributed
> freebee entertainment rag) in April 1995. Three extropians were on
> the cover with maniacal looks in their eyes with a "Freeze Your
> Head" cover title. Inside they appeared in Buckaroo Bonzai-like
> outfits, carrying guns, and talked about their leather-clad S&M
> lifestyles.
Are these people still around? They sound more useful than some of our
latest crop.
Don't worry too much about me. I'm just musing out loud about what we
can do to reinvigorate our group. My frustration at slow progress is
not a complaint that people here are bad, but that I have this constant
nagging feeling that things should be better. We have a lot of
grandiose talk that quickly goes nowhere. Our biggest problems seem to
be human nature, communications and systems management rather than
technology, publicity or politics as it might at first appear.
-- Harvey Newstrom, CISSP <www.HarveyNewstrom.com> Principal Security Consultant <www.Newstaff.com>
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