From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Thu May 02 2002 - 06:41:07 MDT
Dave Sill wrote:
>
> Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@datamann.com> wrote:
> >
> > As one whose genius IQ is likely the result of such experiences (near
> > constant ear infections until age 6, severe abuse by school peers from
> > 4th grade onwards, use of corporal punishment by parents) while I
> > certainly disliked intensely the experiences I went through, I can also
> > certainly say that I would much rather have the IQ I have than to be
> > average/normal.
>
> Would you have made that choice at the time?
If informed of the actual impact: ending my enjoyment of reading in
preference for football, etc, I likely would have made the same choice.
>
> > If high IQ is the reward for enduring such things, I think I got the
> > better end of the deal. What is pain anyways? You could look at it as
> > mental boot camp. Is physical training from childhood onward to become a
> > world class athlete tantamount to abuse? If not, why should similar
> > treatment to get top level IQ be any different?
>
> Because nobody can force an athlete to train. Sure, you force someone
> to be there, and you could force them to go through the motions, but
> you couldn't force them to put any effort into it.
You obviously have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.
>
> Subjecting someone to physical or mental anguish "for their own good"
> and without their consent is wrong. You might make them smarter or
> more creative--something we have only anecdotal evidence to
> support--but you might also cause mental damage. History is filled
> with tortured geniuses who would probably have traded their talent for
> happiness, or at least sanity/normalcy.
>
> > Should we be charging Tiger Shaw's parents with abuse? How about
> > Michelle Kwan's dad?
>
> No, of course not. They didn't *have* to train. Besides, they're
> perfectly capable of defending themselves now.
Kids who are put into extensive training from a young age grow to enjoy
the activity. I'll be Tiger Shaw's dad can tell of thousands of times
young Tiger didn't want to spend an entire afternoon at the driving
range. A few cousins of mine were trained similarly to be figure
skaters, and while they are now both professional skating coaches and
love the sport, I can tell you plenty of stories about how much they
"didn't have to train" as kids.
Whether they are capable of defending themselves now is exactly my own
point... and disproves yours.
>
> > The fact is that you can't reach any great degree of accomplishment
> > without having to go through the pain of training your body to
> > achieve it.
>
> Perhaps, but the question is whether you can or should decide to put
> someone else through that without their consent.
And when in the parent child relationship is the childs consent ever
given significant weight with such prodigies?
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