From: rikowski.uk (rikowski.uk@tinyworld.co.uk)
Date: Sun Apr 14 2002 - 08:42:02 MDT
The real problem is that much of the politics expressed in these debates
appears to be disconnected from Extropian Principles and notions of science.
However, the proposed solution (below) - to ditch the politics and just
concentrate on the Principles, Science and Technology - is just as bad, as
it avoids the issue of the social formation within which a posthuman future
is currently developing, and which is also shaping its modes of social
existence. From this it follows that posthuman futures can only be
understood in relation to the social universe in which we live: the social
universe of capital. To understand this social universe, and to uncover the
social form that the posthuman will take, we shall need a critique of
capital's social universe. This in turn will provide us with a critical
account of what the posthuman is becoming and can become. Finally, this work
would provide us with a politics of human resistance (resistance to us
becoming a particular form of life), which would include a positive politics
for human transformation that is intregal to a project of social
transformation (as it must be) where there is an "open future" for the
human.
Glenn Rikowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Technotranscendence <neptune@mars.superlink.net>
To: <extropians@extropy.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: POLITICS: Re: grim prospects
> On Sunday, April 14, 2002 7:03 AM Samantha Atkins samantha@objectent.com
> wrote:
> > Amen. Thanks for saying this.
> >
> > -samantha
>
> Ditto.
>
> Harvey Newstrom wrote:
> >> I wish I felt like I was doing a good job, but lately I feel like it
> is
> >> a losing battle. I seriously think I see more anti-freedom,
> >> anti-rights, anti-speech rheteric here than calls for freedom. I see
> >> more support for initiating force at the slightest imagined wrong
> rather
> >> than calls for evenhandedness. There is more classism, nationalism,
> >> pro-government, pro-military, anti-individual support than I ever
> >> imagined could survive here. I even see more pseudo-science and
> >> religious faith in unverified conjecture than real technical
> >> possibilities. People seem to be just making up ideas for propaganda
> >> value rather than concerning themselves with real research,
> validation
> >> and facts. It is getting harder and harder to justify putting any
> >> energy into this movement when is seems to becoming more destructive
> and
> >> less scientific. This discussion list seems to have little to do
> with
> >> the Extropian Principles, the Scientific Method, or even logical
> >> thought. Politics and propaganda seem to have become the primary
> >> purpose for most participants.
>
> I think the pro-freedom side will always be in the minority, but I
> didn't expect it to happen on this list. But if you want the discussion
> here to move from politics to technical possibilities, there are two
> ways you can do this. One is to limit yourself to such discussions.
> The other would be to convince the moderator to disallow political
> discussions. I'm for the former because short of moderating the list, I
> don't see the latter as likely. Also, I don't mind a little political
> discussion now and then.:)
The real problem is that much of the politics expressed in these debates
appears to be disconnected from Extropian Principles and notions of science.
However, the proposed solution - to ditch the politics and just concentrate
on the Principles, Science and Technology - is just as bad, as it avoids the
issue of the social formation within which a posthuman future is currently
developing, and which is shaping its modes of social existence. From this it
follows that posthuman futures can onlt be understood in relation to the
social universe in which we live: the social universe of capital. To
understand this social universe and to uncover social form that the
posthuman will take we shall need a critique of capital's social universe,
which in turn will provide us with a critical account of what the posthuman
is becoming and can become. Finally, this work would provide us with a
politics of human resistance (to us becoming a particular form of life),
which would include a politics for human transformation that is intregal to
a project of social transformation.
Glenn Rikowski
>
> One other comment. How representative do you think people on this list
> are of the Extropian movement? Are the various welfare statists and
> militarist statists (not that I can see much difference between the two
> types) represented by huge numbers of others? Or are they just highly
> vocal pundits?
>
> How many Extropians, too, spend a lot of time on the list? I bring this
> up because over the years I've been involved -- on and off since 1996 on
> this list -- I've seen many people leave who were supporters of the
> Principles. What if those people were more representative than the ones
> you're talking about?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Dan
> http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 02 2002 - 09:13:31 MST