From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Apr 12 2002 - 17:15:31 MDT
Samantha wrote
> Protecting you and me from the State rummaging through our
> property and removing any and all privacy whenever the bloody
> well feel like it is NOT a "technicality"!
I totally agree. Anyone who thinks that allowing the State
to rummage through our property and remove any and all
whenever they feel like it must love totalitarianism!
> For real crime (not breaking braindead laws that should never
> have been passed) finding the causes of criminal behavior and
> removing whichever ones are reasonably fixable is every bit as
> important as punishment. So why are we focusing on surety of
> punishment being such a good as to ignore "technicalities"?
Yes, I would like to see many attempt to find the causes
of criminal behavior. It may be in the genes, or in
people's early childhood experiences, or (possibly)
due to exploitation and constant haranguing from TV
shows, pundits, and politicians. Yes, it will
be very nice when we "find the causes".
Meanwhile, punishment is a resort used by almost all
entities in history, be they parents, friends, enemies,
nations, States, communities, or religious figures.
Punishment, or rather the desire to punish, has even
been built into the nervous systems of most animals,
including human beings. I'm sure that you would agree
that it would be unwise to discontinue the practice
entirely, even if it were possible.
Sensible people, even on the Extropian list, will also
agree to moderation on most questions, and I submit
that pursuance of technicalities within the legal
system in order to allow criminals to evade punishment
has often been carried too far, although it's possible
that it's just been that too much publicity has attended
certain cases in which murderers and other miscreants
have evaded punishment on ridiculous technicalities.
But the perception commonly exists that criminals don't
really have that much to fear from the judicial system.
Phil Osborn wrote
> What usually happens, when the thugs in blue can't
> easilly stumble across necessary evidence, is that the
> illegal means are used and then either some other
> source for the evidence is claimed or invented, or
> charges are piled on, intimidating the victim into
> copping a plea.
I don't know about "usually", but at the present moment
I myself am in more fear of the police than I am of
criminals. (And if they manufacture evidence, no
relaxation on the "technicalities" is going to save
me.) While the chance of being victimized by a
criminal is still slightly greater, my pain and
sorrow if the police decided to find narcotics or
child pornography in my house, not to mention
confiscating my computers, is vastly, vastly
greater.
How do we fix this? Well, that's actually a very bad
question. We can't fix that. Either your culture has
the traditions and strength to resist such corruption,
or it doesn't. You either live in a society that has
fairly high trust, or you don't.
Of course, it's fascinating (and in the old days used to
be very important) to try to figure out how some societies
were able to evolve high trust, and how the rest are
still working on it.
Phil went on to say:
> Around my private office in Santa Ana, vandalism is
> virtually an everyday affair, and stripped vehicles
> are dumped by the local car thieves in the back
> parking lot every so often.
In many small communities this doesn't happen. In many
other times and places in American history it didn't
happen. It's very interesting, like I said, to see
how this mess evolved. (Naturally, I think that liberals
had a lot to do with some of the ways things have
degenerated.)
But it's probably more important to ask "why cannot the
police stop the vandalism?" After all, as we are all
evidently agreed here, they'll stop at nothing
to prosecute innocent people like us.
So I wonder what they'd say. Hmm. This is just a guess,
but they might complain that if they arrest a vandal,
nothing really happens to him. Me, I'd prefer to live
in a society that banished or imprisoned for a very
long time lawbreaking hoodlums and criminals. But I
think that most people here, like Phil, would rather
just put up with the vandalism. Better to let a thousand
guilty men go free, after all, than imprison even one
innocent.
Lee
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