From: Dave Sill (extropians@dave.sill.org)
Date: Fri Apr 05 2002 - 11:08:15 MST
"Smigrodzki, Rafal" <SmigrodzkiR@msx.upmc.edu> wrote:
> Dave Sill [extropians@dave.sill.org] wrote:
>
> > Are you willing to ignore some Principles (5 and 6) in the pursuit of
> > others?
>
> Whenever you have more than one principle, you *will* encounter
> situations where choices have to be made. Do you want to have absolute
> liberty? Well, you might have to cut back on progress.
Right, but I don't think it's Extropian to completely ignore any of
the Principles.
> As it is, I am amazed that so many Extropians seem uncomfortable with the
> (relatively) small imposition that the taxes used for research are, but
> somehow nobody addresses the brutal, arrogant attack on liberty that goes on
> every day on almost all roads - the highway speed limits,
I don't object to funding research, I object to people being forced to
fund research. I also object to unreasonable speed limits and all
sorts of other stupid laws, but, obviously, most people aren't all
that bothered by them. Typical tyranny of the majority.
> imposed primarily
> as a source of income and employment for the enforcers. Such limits grossly
> infringe on the right for self-direction, imposing arbitrary limits in the
> name of "safety". Whose safety is it, if 95% of all motorists seem not to
> care? Yet, instead of rising in righteous anger, they flinch at the sight of
> a lurking cop, and lamely beg him for mercy.
Pathetic, isn't it?
> > This implies that there's a smorgasbord of countries to choose from,
> > and that people can simply choose the one that best meets their
> > needs. In reality, many people are stuck with the country they're born
> > in--and the alternatives aren't very attractive.
>
> This is incorrect -
No, it's not. The current choices pretty much suck. The fact that you,
or even many people, have changed countries doesn't mean that lots of
people aren't stuck where they are or that there are better choices
for everyone.
> I am one living example that you can choose your country.
Good for you, but I didn't say nobody could change countries.
> If you are truly unhappy with yours, you can almost always leave,
> and even establish a country of your own (all you need is a bit of real
> estate, like an old oil platform).
Sure...
> > How about the Open Society (#5)? "Preferring...exchange over
> > compulsion". If citizens are compelled to support the Master Plan run
> > by the wise and rational Benevolent Dictator, who, after all, just
> > wants to make things better for everyone, I don't think that's
> > consistent with Open Society.
>
> Write your congressman. Organize an anti-science PAC. Run for office.
>
> This is not Russia, 1953. Nobody will send you to the Gulag.
I'm not worried about being punished for advocating freedom, I just
think it's futile to lobby current congressman. For now, my plan is
support those whose ideas are compatible with mine until, hopefully,
people start objecting on a large scale.
> > I don't think the goal is race toward Extropia as fast as possible,
> > damn the consequences, ignore the collateral damage, etc.
>
> My goal is not absolute liberty, regardless of the collateral damage
> (=innocent lives lost).
So you're willing to save people's lives, whether they want to be
saved or not? Do you also support seat belt laws?
> > I think we should proceed deliberately and gradually, following
> > the Principles as much as possible along the way.
>
> I think we should proceed as quickly as reasonably possible, because
> this best serves my first principle -
>
> "An innocent life wish may not be thwarted".
I have no problem with "as quickly as reasonably possible"--I never
said I wanted slow progress, just gradual.
-Dave
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