From: Terry W. Colvin (fortean1@mindspring.com)
Date: Sat Mar 09 2002 - 23:27:39 MST
Carl Sagan credited intellectual and science-related achievements to
insights he purportedly experienced while high on marijuana!
No, this is not a report from the National Enquirer ;)
...see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,3895244,00.html
Sender: Paul W Harrison
*off looking for Sagan's recipe for brownies...;)*
__________
interEnglish (Finland)
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***According to the news report cited:
'In the essay, Sagan said marijuana inspired some of his intellectual work.
"I can remember one occasion, taking a shower with my wife while high, in
which I had an idea on the origins and invalidities of racism in terms of
gaussian distribution curves," wrote the former Cornell University
professor. "I wrote the curves in soap on the shower wall, and went to write
the idea down." '
>....The only insight you get is that
> Doritos are damn expensive when you're buying ten bags.
***ROTFL.
--------------------
If smoking pot affected Sagan's ability to come up with insights the way
smoking pot affected my law school classmates' sense of humor, I wouldn't
count on those insights as being anything serious. I remember my classmates
sitting around laughing uproarously at the ingredients listing on one of
those bags of Doritos once...
Len "meanwhile, the only time I partook one of those evenings I spent it in
the corner feeling very definitely ill" Cleavelin
---------------------
You got to the Dorito buying stage? I've been errrrr involved in attacks
of the munchies where it took a good 15 minutes to decide WHICH bag of
Doritos to buy (and there were only 3 bags to choose from).
I think Sagan's insights were not of the hallucinatory kind but rather
came from being in an "altered" state (whatever that means). Sort of
like those great ideas you get after a few too many beers.;-)
Threading this back to the discussion on artistic angst, many a person
of the artistic persuasion has used chemicals to enhance the creative
process. I believe that Samuel Taylor Coleridge wrote most of his work
stoned of out of his gourd. Hendrix created a magnificent body of work
while ingesting any drug he could get a hand on. Kurt Cobain combined
the angst and drug thing way too well and destroyed himself and
rock'n'roll in the process.
I've had a discussion with a writer friend on whether drugs can enhance
the creative process. Personally, we both agreed that it doesn't work.
I'd rather play the guitar sober because I know I suck drunk or high. A
lot of it is simply being able to keep the hand co-ordination happening.
Most people on this list would of experience moments where they have
been consumed by a problem with no solution forthcoming. Later, far
removed from the context of the problem and doing something entirely
different, the solution presents itself. I think this is what drugs
faciliate for some poeple. It relaxes the mind so to speak and allows
the creative spark to sparkle.
I know from playing the guitar that if I think about what I am playing
(especially live) it doesn't really work. I play best when I don't
think. That is I concentrate solely on the music and leave such thoughts
as theoretical considerations of what I am playing, who is the cute
blonde and where is my beer is out of it.
I suspect that marijuana, for Sagan, enabled him to reach that same,
neo-Zen state that allowed him to formulate his ideas.
Shaun
-------------------
So - marijuana has inspired the intellectual work of thousands, dare I
say, millions. Artists and scientists both, I would posit, are guilty
of taking mood altering chemicals which give them astounding insights
beyond the price of Doritos, although that last point is very strong
indeed. The university of north Texas, my almamater, plays host to one
of the most eccentric chemists I've ever known. Each night he can be
seen walking from his office, wild white hair and all, down to any
number of bars and clubs on Fry Street, which is adjacent to the
university. I daresay he has toked up once or twice, and been startled
by the vivid colors of his experiments.
Anyway - potheads of the world must unite...when they get around to
it...one day....dude, pass the Funyuns...I could go for another one of
those frozen burritos....with or without the plastic wrapping this time
dude?
TimW
-------------------
For anyone interested, the recent book _The Botany of Desire_ by Michael
Pollan has a long essay about marijuana which mentions Sagan, among others.
It's an interesting discussion of how THC might affect brain function,
though I thought it was heavy on speculation. In his view, yes, marijuana
may enhance insights.
I found the other 3 chapters in the book (apples, tulips, and potato[e]s)
more interesting than the one on marijuana. I enjoyed it overall.
-SW
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> On Wed, 2002-02-27 at 01:35, Adam Levenstein wrote:
> > Sagan smoked pot - old news, that. Doesn't bother me in the least. It's
> > not like the man was a crackhead.
Nor is he the only scientist to have explored or enjoyed drug use. At the
LSD-50 conference in Santa Cruz a few years ago, one of the UCSC math
prof's who was a founder of chaos theory stated that it was Al Hoffman's
problem child that provided him with the relevant insights.
> > As for "insights he purportedly experienced while high," I kinda doubt
> > it. Marijuana is not a hallucinogen. The only insight you get is that
> > Doritos are damn expensive when you're buying ten bags.
>
> You got to the Dorito buying stage? I've been errrrr involved in attacks
> of the munchies where it took a good 15 minutes to decide WHICH bag of
> Doritos to buy (and there were only 3 bags to choose from).
I think this claim, though amusing, is wrong. If you listen to music while
under the cannabis influence, you will likely hear things you had not
previously noticed. An organ track. A guitar riff. The way the horns
supplement the violins. Whatever it is that you notice, when you hear that
music again in a non-augmented state, that stoned realization remains. At
least, I've had That observation verified repeatedly in conversations with
friends.
The story of William James' less than profound experiences with nitrous
oxide are well known, but cannabis and the stronger psychedelics are
another matter.
> I think Sagan's insights were not of the hallucinatory kind but rather
> came from being in an "altered" state (whatever that means). Sort of
> like those great ideas you get after a few too many beers.;-)
> Threading this back to the discussion on artistic angst, many a person
> of the artistic persuasion has used chemicals to enhance the creative
> process. I believe that Samuel Taylor Coleridge wrote most of his work
> stoned of out of his gourd. Hendrix created a magnificent body of work
At least, he used laudanum, tincture of opium, which apparently lead to a
wonderful regurgitation of his recent reading in "Kublai Khan." (see Prof.
Lowe's brilliant tracking of the creative process involved in The Road to
Xanadu.)
> while ingesting any drug he could get a hand on. Kurt Cobain combined
> the angst and drug thing way too well and destroyed himself and
> rock'n'roll in the process.
Rock 'n' roll will never die. And certainly Cobain couldn't have killed
it if he tried.
> I've had a discussion with a writer friend on whether drugs can enhance
> the creative process. Personally, we both agreed that it doesn't work.
Anectotes, we're told, are not evidence. One writer friend of mine did all
his first drafts stoned, then went back and tidyied them up after. It's a
variant on tht old "spontaneous overflow of powerful emotion recollected
in tranquillity" thing that Wordsworth was on about. It's the mop-up that
makes the difference.
> I'd rather play the guitar sober because I know I suck drunk or high. A
When high, timing is altered, among other perceptions. As a result, rock
bands don't generally do well when playing stoned.
As for the influence of drugs on those creating visual arts, too many film
examples exist, from Ken Anger to Oliver Stone, for me to single out any
one, but it might be worth mentioning Oscar Janiger, who died last year, a
psychologist who famously administered LSD to painters and compared thier
work before and after.
--------------------
To (sort of!) bring this back to the thematic area of the list, it's
hard to imagine where more pseudo-science lurks than in the traditional
assertions of *both* Drug War proponents and avid legalization
campaigners. Both sides cite "major studies" which indicate either how
every cannabis smoker is going to work his way up to killer cocaine and
heroin and become their "slaves" or then how LSD and hashish lead their
dedicated users to Nirvana and other forms of Spiritual Enlightenment
and are "totally harmless" (though the "feed your head" type of claims
have generally receded after the idealistic sixties and seventies
plunged us into the harsh realities of realpolitik, AIDS and world
terrorism).
These days, though I have little use for drugs ("mind-expanding" or
otherwise), it is interesting to note the significant attempts by
nations like Canada and the UK to increasingly bring marijuana and the
like under the legal umbrella, especially in the clinical area. The
Netherlands have long practised highly liberal policies in this area
without the nightmare scenarios predicted by the anti-drug warriors
having occurred. Do list members in the States feel that it is
inevitable that these changes in social attitudes are also going to
eventually filter down into U.S. drug policies (is this process actually
already underway?), or that America's (in)famous "War on Drugs" will
continue to fill American prisons with illicit chemical and herbal
users?
-- Paul W Harrison
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interEnglish (Finland)
--
Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@mindspring.com >
Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com >
Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html >
Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB *
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