Re: TERRORISM: looking for solutions

From: Joe Dees (joedees@addall.com)
Date: Fri Sep 14 2001 - 00:40:05 MDT

('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is) >Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:26:39 -0700
> Adrian Tymes <wingcat@pacbell.net> Re: TERRORISM: looking for solutions extropians@extropy.orgReply-To: extropians@extropy.org
>
>Joe Dees wrote:
>> >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:48:37 -0700
>> > Adrian Tymes <wingcat@pacbell.net> Re: TERRORISM: looking for solutions extropians@extropy.orgReply-To: extropians@extropy.org
>> >Joe Dees wrote:
>> >> >From: Adrian Tymes <wingcat@pacbell.net>
>> >
>> >> >One of the better solutions I've heard today is to train the stewards
>> >> >in security. Give them batons and tasers, normally concealed under
>> >> >their uniforms (don't want to *look* threatening), and make sure they
>> >> >know how to use them. The number of ways a passenger-turned-terrorist
>> >> >can try to take over a plane is limited; most of them can probably be
>> >> >programmed into simulators for training against. Main objective is to
>> >> >prevent hijacking, but this might also be useful day-to-day in cases of
>> >> >severe air rage.
>> >> >
>> >> This might work against a lone terrorist, but the cellphone calls
>> >> that came from the planes indicated that there were as many as a
>> >> half-dozen hijackers per plane.
>> >
>> >Fine. There's *how* many stewards?
>> >
>> Let's ask, and also ask about the height, weight, gender and combat training of the average stew.
>
>H/W/G: some of the most effective martial artists I know are short,
>light females. The difference? Combat training - which is what I'm
>suggesting be supplied. (And attitude, granted, but the training can
>teach them to control attitude as necessary.)
>
And you think that terrorists are not trained in martial arts in their camps? Muslims have embraced the martial arts no less than we have, and soliers are taught them the world over.
>
>> >And the stewards could gang up on
>> >each terrorist, while the terrorists would have to disperse since
>> >they're monitoring all the passengers.
>> >
>> You seem to think that there are dozens of them per plane. Who have YOU been flying with?
>
><shrugs> Taking down one or two terrorists at a time should be easily
>for a trained and properly armed team of three or four. Frankly, one
>or two trained fighters can whip any small mob of gun-toting fanatics
>randomly plucked from the dregs of society (those having the least to
>lose by dying).
>
Scroll to previous comment.
>
>> >BTW, to those who suggested guns: I suggested batons and tasers because
>> >they don't punch holes in the aircraft hull...and they tend to be less
>> >deadly to any hostages or other bodies that happen to get in the way.
>> >Killing an enemy is not always the best way to remove the threat they
>> >represent.
>> >
>> In fact, the best way I've seen advocated onlist is cockpit security. But we're gonna have sky marshals anyway; let's hope they're not like elderly bank guards, and know how to retain and use the weapons they're issued, while avoiding depressurizing the plane in the process.
>
>Which is why I also suggested recertifying the security training every
>so often. Skills that are allowed to degrade to scraps aren't that
>useful.
>
>BTW, the reason I suggest this instead of a specific Sky Marshal: the
>stewards will normally be out and about, justifying their employment
>and not dozing off, if terrorists attack.
>
(S)he just has to sit in the front row next to the cockpit access and be firable if observed snoozing, with a mirror cemented in the front bulkhead for rear visual access.
>
>Plus, arming the stewards
>gaurantees you'll have more than one security officer; single-purpose
>Sky Marshals would likely be reduced to just 1 for budget reasons (not to mention, wasting space on the 99+% of flights where they are not
>needed).

Considering the additionla training and requirements this would impose upon them, and the concommitant funds required to compensate them fairly, a couple of sky marshalls per plane would not be much more expensive, and perhaps cheaper.

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