From: Olga Bourlin (fauxever@sprynet.com)
Date: Wed Aug 29 2001 - 01:48:15 MDT
From: "Lee Corbin" <lcorbin@tsoft.com>
> Russell writes
>
> > Maybe I'm missing something, but when I say I like diversity I simply
mean
> > that I like living in a world where people have widely different life
> > styles, interests, self-presentations, sexualities etc. I don't want to
live
> > in a world where everyone is the same. I like variety.
> >
> > Lee seems to have expressed not so much a contrary wish to this (though
that
> > may be what he feels) as an objection to identity politics built around
> > these things. If that is so I have some sympathy, though I'd say that
> > identity politics is sometimes necessary for people with unpopular
> > characteristics to pursue more tolerance, better legal rights etc.
> >
> > Can you clarify what you don't like, Lee? Is it a variety of different
kinds
> > of people? Or is it the (sometimes necessary, I would say) evil of
identity
> > politics?
>
> I dislike individuals being replaced, in effect, by groups. Now the
> groups may indeed arise from history and geography, and what not, and
> be real. But it's false for people to identify with their group at
> the expense of seeing themselves and feeling themselves to be
> individuals. Identity *politics* is only a part, but an important
> part, of this.
Lee, is it really all so black and white (no pun intended)? Can't an
individual be an individual, and still have sentimental ties to his or her
family (from Poland, let's pretent), Eastern European food, and music in the
minor scale?
> When I was 18, I was running a junior chess program for the city.
> An eleven year old suddenly asked me, "Are you Catholic?". When
> I answered "No" I could see that a little barrier had sprung up
> between us. That's one aspect.
When I was nearly 9 (my first winter in the United States), I noticed Jewish
children were excluded from the "Christmas" festivities at my elementary
school. I was sad for them - it seemed unecessary, and I could not feel
very festive when some of the kids were left out. The seeds of freethought
really sprouted in me that year. (In prior years, I was spared having to
observe what schools in Rio de Janeiro did regarding Christmas festivities
as the seasons there were reversed -- December was a summer vacation month.)
So, maybe we agree on the potentially divisive nature of religions.
But until we control the genes
> that determine racial groupings, we're helpless against the
> divisions that naturally arise, say, between whites and blacks.
How did you make this jump from religion -- to "racial groupings?"
(Control the genes that determine racial groupings ... WHAT?) In your
opinion - what exactly is a racial grouping? And what are these divisions
which you think naturally arise between whites and blacks? I'm suppressing
an overwhelming urge to write in all capital letters. Do you have any
friends (I mean, really good friends) who are of a different "race?" I use
the term loosely -- because "race" is scientifically invalid. I can attest
that there are no divisions that NATURALLY arise between whites and blacks
or whites and Asians - my husband is Irish and black, my three grandchildren
are half Vietnamese and half European, and we one happy -- and lucky --
family.
> The diversity that you are speaking of---which is not what people
> are usually meaning when they use the term---"people have widely
> different life styles, interests, self-presentations, sexualities etc."
> is fairly harmless. But what is the use of cultural diversity,
> for example? None. So far as I can tell, it limits people, and
> allows them and others to pigeonhole, and fosters divisiveness.
You yourself belong to a culture, right? Is it of any use to you? (I guess
I don't really understand your question very well.) It seems to me you are
looking at ethnic groups other than your own as the potentially pesky "other
cultures" ... if that's so, it seems a rather ethnocentric view.
Olga
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