From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Wed Aug 08 2001 - 12:54:26 MDT
Loree Thomas wrote:
>
> --- Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@datamann.com> wrote:
> >
> > I:
> > a) lost out on an appointment to a military academy
>
> So did I... West Point. I had the highest SAT scores
> in the State of Washington that year too. It wasn't
> an ethnic minority that got my slot, however, it was
> another white male who just happen to be a better
> student and athlete than me.
>
> Few slots, many applicants. How do you know an ethnic
> minority got a slot which would have been yours?
> Maybe you lost out because there were simply other
> people more qualified than you?
Because:
a) I had the highest SATs that year of all applicants
b) those nominees who got the appointments were a female and a black
male
c) the academies rejected my nomination not on any grounds of my own
unfitness, but because my older brother had asthma (in their health
forms, they ask "have you or any member of your family ever had:". When
I disputed their rejection on that grounds, they sent specs for one of
those treadmill tests, only requiring me to inhale a specified chemical
before the test, which my doctor knew caused asthma attacks in 99% of
the population. Thus, they rigged the test to eliminate me as a
candidate.
>
> > b) lost out on financial aid in college, which was
> > biased to provide
> > more aid to people of the same economic level if
> > they were minorities.
>
> Did you get your education anyway... despite losing
> out on financial aid? Do you think it's possible that
> some of those black students might not have gotten
> their educations at all if they had lost out?
My parents had to pay full boat for my education, which I did not and
could not afford to finish due to the expenses of a back injury. With
three other siblings, they could only afford to send me for a year
unless I obtained financial aid.
>
> > c) am constantly accused of being a
> > racist/sexist/'rich elite' simply
> > because I am a white male.
>
> I don't think it's simply because you are a white
> male... But more because you say things like "am
> constantly accused of being a racist/sexist/'rich
> elite' simply because I am a white male."
>
> Like I said, I was a white male... and I never got
> accused of being racist (or sexist, for that matter).
> If you are constantly being accused of being racist,
> maybe you should take a look at your words and
> actions. It isn't just because you are a white male.
Irrespective of my words and actions, which anyone objective enough on
this list would understand are not racist, sexist, and I have certainly
never been part of the 'rich elite'.
>
> > In my experience, the only lack of opportunity that
> > blacks I've known have had has been produced by
> > their own memetic programming, and not by
> > the system. When you are programmed to expect
> > racism, that is exactly what you will get.
>
> Racism is caused by the people being discriminated
> against, simply becuase they believe it exists?
>
> You didn't really just say that, did you?
No, that is NOT what I said, so stop putting words in my mouth like you
folks usually do.
I have met my share of bigots, who have shared their opinions with me
thinking that I feel the same way because I'm white and male and
individualistic, so I won't deny that it exists.
I have known, worked, and lived with many black people, and I have
always found situations where some blacks present or observing
automatically cry 'racism', while others are far more objective. Many
are also able to discriminate between bigotry from ignorance and bigotry
from intent. I see it all the time when I visit my jewish cousin up in
Maine. His fellow students who are natives of northern Maine really
don't know what is and is not rude behavior with respect to jews.
> Your being discriminated against is real... their's is
> all in their heads?
No. The discrimination against myself for my white maleness is
institutional, a statutory part of the bureaucracy. Discrimination, real
and perceived, against blacks today is generally a matter of systemic
and cultural perception.
For example, mail order businesses that won't deliver to zip codes with
high fraud and theft rates are not being racist, though the result of
their actions is systemic blanket discrimination against those living in
those zip codes due to the actions of a few. Individuals living within
those zip codes must work on an individual basis, and undergo individual
credit checks (or provide credit reports), as well as have their methods
of payment restricted, for example, to credit cards that are billed to
the addresses the products are delivered to.
This is part of the whole trust problem I've been writing about in the
past.
> Mike... I have no trouble at all believing you are a
> good person who would never engage in overt acts of
> discrimination... but you have deluded yourself if you
> think that blacks bring it all on themselves... and it
> is statements like that which result in you being
> called racist... it has nothing to do with the color
> of your skin.
When I was in basic training, every black fellow who dropped out of
training did so claiming 'racism', despite our three DI's being black
and hispanic and female, respectively. Those fellows who stuck with it
laughed at such insinuations as cop outs. I have seen these sorts of
situations FAR more frequently than actual incidents of discrimination.
A large amount of the poor opinion of blacks that I have seen in whites
is that far too many blacks live down to the stereotypes that whites
have, and thereby hurt all.
I do not say that discrimination against blacks doesn't exist. I have
fought against it myself, and my fighting against it is likely why my
'voluntary out' discharge from the Air Force mysteriously materialized
despite my not having asked for it, since I had been in the process of
reporting to the EEOC offices about the new First Sergeant in my
squadron, who I had found out in his last assignment (in Logistics) had
sent 94% of the people on base put through the Correctional Custody
program on base in the last year, and of the 48 enlistees that made up
those, all were either black, hispanic, or female.
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